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Best Charging Practices?

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Maxx

Maxx

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I think our short attention span is a bigger factor than believability. 😂😂
I barely remember my name these days and what I do remember may have been manufactured in my dreams. I kinda recall something around 85% SOC was his favorite number but the rest is foggy.

Edit: My Samsong/Android smartphone likes that number too.
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Yellow Buddy

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Didn't we have a Li-ion battery expert on the forums that explained his charging strategy and how to make the cells last forever? ;)

I also heard he doesn't follow the advice on how to make the cells last virtually forever, but he still sticks to the charging strategy based on what he has seen over 12 years of cycling a variety of Li-ion chemistries.
Just because we have one doesn’t mean we have to listen…

What fun would forums be if all we did was list facts?
 

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My hope is that in 5 or 6 years we will have the ability to change out the entire battery pack system with even better longer life higher capacity packs that actually improve driving distance to 400 or 500 miles. Based on technology rate of improvement that seems more likely than not and hopefully at a price that would make that a very attractive option if we have significant battery degradation or a need for longer range.
 

RickLightning

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My hope is that in 5 or 6 years we will have the ability to change out the entire battery pack system with even better longer life higher capacity packs that actually improve driving distance to 400 or 500 miles. Based on technology rate of improvement that seems more likely than not and hopefully at a price that would make that a very attractive option if we have significant battery degradation or a need for longer range.
If you mean changing out the battery pack on a vehicle made in 5 or 6 years, sure. If you mean swapping out the truck's battery pack, who do you think is going to invest money in providing that capability on a 5 year old truck that is working fine? Nobody.
 
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hmmmmmm.... I'm confused. I don't think you can be a 'big fan', and yet love mediocrity.
Big is kinda like Grande. Right in the middle, between small and huge.

Ford F-150 Lightning Best Charging Practices? 1700321457017
 

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My hope is that in 5 or 6 years we will have the ability to change out the entire battery pack system with even better longer life higher capacity packs that actually improve driving distance to 400 or 500 miles. Based on technology rate of improvement that seems more likely than not and hopefully at a price that would make that a very attractive option if we have significant battery degradation or a need for longer range.
I do share that hope. I just wonder if in the absence of regulation from folks that are too far behind to regulate, manufacturers will go along with it. Remember how easy it was to replace batteries on smartphones then it was not. Tesla batteries are more difficult to work on today than they used to be as well. Manufacturers like GM and Ford that do not have confidence in their tech yet, make things more reparable so they can manage problems during warranty. With those cars we may have a chance third party can do something down the road. Tesla is more like Apple. They glue the whole pack together and after warranty, any problem with the pack and you will have a hard time justifying fixing it rather than getting a new car. The recent model 3 guy paid $9K for a refurbished battery with one year warranty. Tesla has no interest in making it easy or cheap for you to keep your car after warranty. It is just a giant iPhone. Unless smart third party hackers get into it, it may be challenging. Better batteries will likely have different chemistry and may not work with the old BMS. The good news is, BEV mechanic is not that complicated so if the existing software is propriety and can not be messed with, the new battery potentially can come with a new brain if the old one can not be hacked. That will likely happen for high volume cars like Model 3 and Model Y. But it may be 10 years before we are looking at something like this. Solid State May be 5 years out for mass production and another 5 years before it is cheap. By then our Lightnings May be ready for upgrade. If I am still around, I could definitely enjoy an upgrade; a lighter 500 mile Pro with faster charging.

New batteries must be cheap enough (relative to new cars) to provide an incentive for anyone to bother with it.
 
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I charge to 80% weekdays and use 25%-40% daily. Home by 4:30 pm with charging starting at 8:00 pm and usually done by 1:00-2:00 am. On long day trips of 220-250 miles I’ll charge to 100%.

The truck is always charged in a garage. The ambient temperature never drops below 45 F. The CP Home Flex consistently charges at 9KW and adds ~20 miles/hr.
 

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If you mean changing out the battery pack on a vehicle made in 5 or 6 years, sure. If you mean swapping out the truck's battery pack, who do you think is going to invest money in providing that capability on a 5 year old truck that is working fine? Nobody.
That would depend on the cost and an owners need to recover/add range. Ford already changes out battery modules so we know that is possible and the more it has to be done will provide information on how perform that process quicker and at less cost.

If the system is still operating well it would be nothing more than installing a factory rebuilt engine in a conventional ICE. As long as replacement packs are the same size and fit and use the same cooling and electrical connectors its like a engine change.

To be sure Ford is already installing different types of batteries in the same systems and it appears it does not require any changes beyond that in the Lightning.

I'm thinking somewhere between $4 to $6 k might make that an attractive option especially if it comes with added range and only requires a change of the actual battery packs. Not sure why i would want or need to change the BMS if the only technical difference is the batteries only provide increased capacity using the same space and outputting the same voltage. Just have to live with the max rate for charging available today if that is a bottleneck and its too expensive to change then don't. I would be ok with only range increase all other conditions being the same. And the used packs have a residual value, repurposed for things like battery banks which Tesla already does.
 

RedLightning86

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I let mine run down as far as I can to just make it I to work. Then I charge for free to 95% or so while I work. Wash rinse repeat!

if I need to charge for a trip at home, then I charge to 100%

on the road, I only charge as much as I need to to get to next free charger, and then to 95%.

is it best practices? Don’t know, don’t care. I spent $80k on a truck, not baby carriage! If it doesn’t last per warranty, then Ford replaces.

in the meantime, I’m the guy putting while I watch the sun go down!

I have been charging at home with some assumptions that I am not sure are correct. Currently I am charging to 60% on Sunday night, driving it on Monday, letting it sit around 50% for most of the week driving it on Friday to 40%, charge overnight to 80% for weekend drive. Here is a general question:

Which one is worse for the battery; higher number of cycles? Or spending more time at SOCs away from from 50%? Assuming in both cases you consume the same number of KWhs annually. In other words charging to 90% using 10% every day until you hit 10% (1 cycle but spending a day at 90% and a day at 10%) vs going from 60% to 40% (4 cycles but spending 4 days at 50% )

Also, I have heard when you drive home, you should let the truck sit for a few hours for the battery to balance before you charge. I also heard battery does not like to be at low SOC and like to charged at temps closer to body temperature. So if I get home at 10% SOC when temp outside is 35 degrees and battery is warm from driving, which one takes precedence? Is it better to charge immediately or wait a few hours to charge?

If you have source for your answers please share. If you don’t, I still like to read your opinion with your reasoning.

Forgive me if this is already posted somewhere. I searched and could not find it.
I
 

Jim Lewis

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On derating the FCSP charge rate, my installer told me the FCSP gets very hot inside including the plastic wall mount plate when charging at 80 amps over more than a few hours. He thought it was very poorly designed as far as heat management goes. So not wanting to burn down your house could be a reason for derating the FCSP.
 

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I do. de-rated it to 48amps or whatever the next lowest setting is on the FCSP. only reason is two fold. first, I noticed in one of my first chagings at 80 amps, it actually paused for a period of time to cool the battery and the cord was quite warm. But secondly my driving routines don't need to charge that fast a charge speed.
 

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On derating the FCSP charge rate, my installer told me the FCSP gets very hot inside including the plastic wall mount plate when charging at 80 amps over more than a few hours. He thought it was very poorly designed as far as heat management goes. So not wanting to burn down your house could be a reason for derating the FCSP.
I’d like to know where he got that information. The FCSP is UL-listed and the listing standard includes tests for internal temperature rise.
 

Roy2001

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0-100% is one cycle. But if you always do 0-100% you would lose capacity faster. 20-70% 2 times means one cycle.

But if you can do 40-70% it should lose capacity slower. So Ideally 40-70%, daily 20-80% is fine.
 
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Jim Lewis

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I’d like to know where he got that information
He told me that he had to answer another customer's complaints that his FCSP was overheating and he personally observed the temperature rise over a 6 to 8 hour period charging at 80 amps. I presume it was in Texas summer heat as he told me this back in July or August. He disassembled the device and found the backplate extremely hot to the touch. IIRC, he lamented the lack of any ventilation and said other chargers had better provisions for air cooling.
 

Maquis

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He told me that he had to answer another customer's complaints that his FCSP was overheating and he personally observed the temperature rise over a 6 to 8 hour period charging at 80 amps. I presume it was in Texas summer heat as he told me this back in July or August. He disassembled the device and found the backplate extremely hot to the touch. IIRC, he lamented the lack of any ventilation and said other chargers had better provisions for air cooling.
He has no way of knowing if the observed “extremely hot to the touch” is problematic.
The FCSP is sealed against the elements for outdoor installation. It does not use ventilation for cooling.
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