Ford Announces 'Skunkworks-Developed' Low-Cost EV Platform To Rule Them All (ex-Tesla Executive Leads)

[MM in SouthTX]

A 3 row AWD vehicle similar to the Toyota Sienna would be very popular, but not with a huge volume. However, if that Sienna-like-vehicle was marketed as a 3 row SUV with easy access to the 3rd row seats could sell and be very popular. The key is larger opening rear doors.

We had Sienna's when the kids were young. Outstanding utility that outweighed the negative style points for succumbing to a minivan. One of the main features that we liked was the interior volume, which is a function of the low floor. I think would lose that if you add battery packs. Here it is with the 3rd row seats folded into the well behind them.

Toyota already has trouble finding volume for hybrid batteries in the Sequoia and newly designed Landcruiser. They have high decks behind the rear lift gate. The Sequoia loses further volume because the 3rd row seat can't fold out of the way.

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[Kev12345]

Im curious, what do you consider the Lightnings shortcomings?

Serious question. Your insight specifically since you work on them. Figure that would be more insightful than an exterior view of what may be perceived and not actual

let me take a wild guess. SOFTWARE, SOFTWARE, SOFTWARE.

Am I close?

 

[Yellow Buddy]

I think that's debatable. So far every domestic manufacturer and several foreign ones have fielded minivan concepts over the last three decades and had to pull them back because they didn't sell. I think we've seen that nobody in the US can really make a minivan except Dodge. I have one myself, and even now with 300 horsepower it drives like a sports car but it looks like a soccer mom on the way to practice. I've never seen a good looking minivan.

I would buy a ram charger type setup on a minivan in a heartbeat.

All electric motors, 100kWh battery, plug in L2, don’t even need the DCFC as that gets just as pricey once on the road.

10 gallon gas tank with a partnership with Mazda for a Wankle for space purposes or a low rpm diesel for noise purposes.

Heck I’m suprised nobody has made me an electric motorcoach yet with a 200kWh belly battery and use the onboard diesel genset as a charging source in the same type of setup

 

[Zprime29]

We rented a Honda Odyssey for a trip to Disney with the grandparents. That was an amazing vehicle in terms of practicality. We love the Pilot, but are seriously considering an Odyssey to replace it. I'll second @Yellow Buddy, a ram charger style minivan would be a big draw for my family.

 

[eRock77]

I would buy a ram charger type setup on a minivan in a heartbeat.

All electric motors, 100kWh battery, plug in L2, don’t even need the DCFC as that gets just as pricey once on the road.

10 gallon gas tank with a partnership with Mazda for a Wankle for space purposes or a low rpm diesel for noise purposes.

Heck I’m surprised nobody has made me an electric motorcoach yet with a 200kWh belly battery and use the onboard diesel genset as a charging source in the same type of setup

I can see a 3 row plug in hybrid being a viable option. The typical 3 row buyer might be willing to plug in at night but probably doesn't want to do the math or sit around an EA waiting for a charge. Half the time I don't really want to do it either.

I'm clearly not an engineer and I recognize that many of the people on this forum are, so please bear with me here as I attempt to convey my meaning. I'm sure my guesstimation will be painful to some. My Pro SR gets about 2.0kWh in steady state freeway winter driving. I've not had it in a summer, but let's just say that's about what it is for a worst case scenario.

Westinghouse sells a fine 20,000 watt generator (28,000 watt peak load) with a 999 CC OHV gas motor. Yes, it would be annoyingly loud and dance all around the bed. Yes, it would draw scorn from the black earther crowd out there. Yes, it weighs 600 pounds, but it's still well within the payload of the vehicle. But if I left the house with an 80% charge, and I was able to overcome the considerable software and hardware issues preventing me from doing it, could I not perpetually charge the vehicle as I drove as long as the fuel held out? It just seems to make too much sense.

Tell me why this won't work.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

I can see a 3 row plug in hybrid being a viable option. The typical 3 row buyer might be willing to plug in at night but probably doesn't want to do the math or sit around an EA waiting for a charge. Half the time I don't really want to do it either.

I'm clearly not an engineer and I recognize that many of the people on this forum are, so please bear with me here as I attempt to convey my meaning. I'm sure my guesstimation will be painful to some. My Pro SR gets about 2.0kWh in steady state freeway winter driving. I've not had it in a summer, but let's just say that's about what it is for a worst case scenario.

Westinghouse sells a fine 20,000 watt generator (28,000 watt peak load) with a 999 CC OHV gas motor. Yes, it would be annoyingly loud and dance all around the bed. Yes, it would draw scorn from the black earther crowd out there. Yes, it weighs 600 pounds, but it's still well within the payload of the vehicle. But if I left the house with an 80% charge, and I was able to overcome the considerable software and hardware issues preventing me from doing it, could I not perpetually charge the vehicle as I drove as long as the fuel held out? It just seems to make too much sense.

Tell me why this won't work.

Without overcomplicating it, the ram charger pretty much does just that. The engine isn’t connected to the motor and only exists to charge the batteries. The engine instead acts as a 130kW generator for the batteries, essentially DCFC as you go.

But a 20kW genset wouldn’t come close to being able to sustain you as you’d need a much larger genset.

 

[Grumpy2]

But if I left the house with an 80% charge, and I was able to overcome the considerable software and hardware issues preventing me from doing it, could I not perpetually charge the vehicle as I drove as long as the fuel held out?

I think the issues to overcome to charge will driving in the electronics would be great.
See this video on a 12kw genset:

Note that genset uses about 1 gallon/hour to charge at 48amps. It could be used to recharge at stops where a conventional charger isn't available, but it wouldn't be any faster than charging at home, and cost considerably more. In some cases it might be a option for some folks.

 

[Pioneer74]

Im curious, what do you consider the Lightnings shortcomings?

Serious question. Your insight specifically since you work on them. Figure that would be more insightful than an exterior view of what may be perceived and not actual

400 volt charging and lack of heat pump are the biggest shortcomings I see. Heat pump is being addressed. The current battery pack could have been reconfigured to charge at 800V like GM does with the Silverado.

Another shortcoming is not being able to disengage the front motor from the gearbox. Some way to get the front wheels to free wheel to increase efficiency when you don't need AWD.

 

[Pioneer74]

It will be interesting which methodology wins out. I personally think the Stellantis approach is a compromised hedge that won't be the best platform for any of the drivetrains it supports.

I know this is an old post, and I've already responded to it, but this article describes better than I did why flexible platforms are a good idea.

“That one platform, with essentially one set of [electric drive modules ] and two ICE engines has the ability to cover over 30 percent of the industry,” Kuniskis said. “All those different combinations, all those different brands, all those different customer profiles that allow you to expand the adoption of that one platform, and the ability to flex between those technologies not across multiple cars or platforms, but flex between those technologies within one platform, one manufacturing footprint, one supplier base — depending on whichever way the regulations go — we can flex it in that direction.”

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/02/stellantis-ceo-says-no-thanks-to-regulatory-emissions-credits/

 

[Maxx]

Let’s see if Ford can beat dolphin at $11K

 

[Hank42]

Looks like Stellantis is brushing the dust off a 15 year old program from it's forefather: https://www.motortrend.com/features/chrysler-envi-electric-vehicle-plans/

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