New owner - question on charging % charging frequency.

[MaintGrl]

Hey Justin, Just wanna say, welcome as other have. You have a great truck. I got my 23" XLT SR, Dec. of 23" I only have about 5500 miles on it but it rides like a dream, I'm used to driving ICE F250/350's for work that are like a tank. As others have said, just enjoy it...
BTW, what color did you get? I have the Antimatter Blue (AMB) and just love the two tone.

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[Henry Ford]

Charging frequency, stopping below 90%, keeping charge within a certain band, etc. has a miniscule affect on battery life and health, if any at all. The evidence I've seen shows that the batteries in our trucks degrade very little over time and use. In some EVs it does make a difference, but I just don't think it does in our trucks. It's not worth my time and mental effort to worry about it.

The oldest Lightning is three years old. Battery degradation over time is still a theory. You might be right but treating your battery kindly is pretty easy for most users. If you are wrong it could be very expensive.

 

[RickLightning]

For extended range, the useable size of the battery is 131kw. Out of I believe 143kw total size. My understanding is the best thing to do is to charge to 80% of capacity on a regular basis which means you can charge daily to 85%. (131*.85)/143 = 77.9% actual SOC. I personally charge to 85% every couple of days. I don’t know the exact math on the standard range, but I imagine it’s similar.

Many people here will tell you that it ultimately doesn’t really matter. In fact, Ford recommends 90% for daily use. I have heard and read many stories of people charging to 100% and their battery degradation is still very minimal. However, unless you really need the range, it’s probably best to stay below 100% and limit DCFC to the extent you can.

See, I read what you wrote and laugh. Why?

You go through all that stuff to show it's only 77.9% SOC of the full battery, and 80% is good. So, if I charge to 90% (as Ford recommends), that's 131*.9/143=82.5%. If you really think that 4.580419% of the battery makes a difference, I have a bridge for sale for a great price.

I charge both vehicles to 90% every time they are driven. The SOH on each is higher than most post.

 

[Marc]

I came from a Model Y. I charge to 80%. Then when I get home I just plug it in and charge back to 80. To do mix it up and go several days without charging and get it down to 50% and then charge it. When I travel or once every couple of months I charge it to 100% just to keep the batteries balanced.

 

[Joe Dablock]

I have a 22 MME er with 64k miles and a 23 Lightning er with 38k miles and I charge both to 100% and never let them go down below 50%. They are useless to me if I don’t have the full capability available. There isn’t a fast charger within 50 miles of my location. So far so good!

 

[RocketGhost]

That is directly contrary to every study I have seen reported.

One of the members here even tested the lightnings batteries and found that to be untrue.

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...t-of-temperature-on-battery-cells-life.22914/

I did my best to interpret that data with the information given, and it's really difficult to make any conclusion other than high temp and high delta SOC cycling degrades battery cells the most. There wasn't enough information to really know how bad the degradation really is, and certainly it's almost useless data to make conclusions about real-world battery life.

The sharp decline in capacity shown in the graphs may be a very small % capacity decrease. And apparent cell failure after just a handful of cycles isn't real-world by any means.

What we can gather is that moderate battery temperatures and smaller SOC delta charge cycles is best, but we don't really know how much better. Battery temperature isn't much of an issue since the truck will manage it and won't let it get (or stay) in a critical range.

I base my assertion on users' reported battery state of health from Car Scanner. We'll know more as the trucks age and people put more miles on them. But if the worst we've seen so far is a couple percent at most, I think it's safe to say battery degradation will not be a significant issue long-term.

The oldest Lightning is three years old. Battery degradation over time is still a theory. You might be right but treating your battery kindly is pretty easy for most users. If you are wrong it could be very expensive.

As I stated above, I haven't seen reported SOH dropping much at all. For my truck, it is three years old, 15k miles, and 100% SOH. It sat at the dealer for almost two years and I got it with 4k miles, so I have no idea how it was charged. But if I presently have 100% SOH, I can't image battery health being an issue during the lifetime of the truck.

 

[Firn]

I did my best to interpret that data with the information given, and it's really difficult to make any conclusion other than high temp and high delta SOC cycling degrades battery cells the most. There wasn't enough information to really know how bad the degradation really is, and certainly it's almost useless data to make conclusions about real-world battery life.

The sharp decline in capacity shown in the graphs may be a very small % capacity decrease. And apparent cell failure after just a handful of cycles isn't real-world by any means.

What we can gather is that moderate battery temperatures and smaller SOC delta charge cycles is best, but we don't really know how much better. Battery temperature isn't much of an issue since the truck will manage it and won't let it get (or stay) in a critical range.

I base my assertion on users' reported battery state of health from Car Scanner. We'll know more as the trucks age and people put more miles on them. But if the worst we've seen so far is a couple percent at most, I think it's safe to say battery degradation will not be a significant issue long-term.


As I stated above, I haven't seen reported SOH dropping much at all. For my truck, it is three years old, 15k miles, and 100% SOH. It sat at the dealer for almost two years and I got it with 4k miles, so I have no idea how it was charged. But if I presently have 100% SOH, I can't image battery health being an issue during the lifetime of the truck.

There’s no reason to think the Lightning’s batteries behave any differently than the same NMC cells used elsewhere. It’s the same chemistry, same rules.

A few points:

The truck doesn’t manage battery temperature beyond preventing overheating. If it's parked in 100°F+ heat on blacktop, the battery temp will climb—with no active cooling unless the vehicle is running.

Even in normal operation, it allows the pack to get very warm before engaging cooling—reportedly around 104°F. That’s not runaway territory, but it’s well into the range where high SOC degradation starts kicking in.


These batteries aren’t new or mysterious. There’s over 20 years of solid research and thousands of cycle tests on NMC cells. We don’t need to wait for three years of Lightning-specific data when the existing research already maps out what to expect.

The data from Lightnings just confirms the trend—it doesn’t show some miracle chemistry at work. If it walks like an NMC, degrades like an NMC, and charges like an NMC... because it is an NMC.

Saying we can't judge the Lightning's battery yet is like saying a Chevy V8 that's been used for ten years suddenly has unknown reliability just because it's now in a GMC.

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries#google_vignette

 

[Mal106]

I think an overriding factor, at least on a road trip, is the rate of charge. The charge acceptance rate for the first few minutes is 160KW or so. It then drops to 110 or so. Then at 80% the charge rate drops suddenly to 60 or so. This means that to optomise time, charge more often and only to 80%. I set the limit to 85% and disconnect at 80. The 5% is in case I forget and would rather charge than pay idle fees. This also agrees with common recommendations for charge limits. I suspect the worst enemys are actually heat and allowing the battery to sit idle at very high or low states of charge. So charge and immediately go at high levels and stop and immediately charge at low levels.

 

[Daragh]

95% or more of my charging is done at home with a level 2 Ford Charge Station at about 10.5kW. Can do 16kW buy why when I never need to charge quickly. I plug it in every time I’m home and I charge typically from 50-80% every 2nd or 3rd day. Every now and then I’ll go from 35% to 80% and when going on a long trip that I know will require DC Fast charging I’ll charge to 100% overnight before. When DC fast charging typically only goto 80% solely because of the significant time it takes post 80%.

Like many others on here have said limit fully charging and discharging, no matter the battery technology none of them like this regardless of their life span.

The reality is Fords (and other manufacturers) battery testing was most likely done on a 10-90% charge cycling consecutively over temperature to accelerate early failure and any negative longevity concerns, in reality most users do short start stop driving and small charge cycles. The battery will most likely outlive the vast majority of owners ownerships.

 

[electricpig]

I did my best to interpret that data with the information given, and it's really difficult to make any conclusion other than high temp and high delta SOC cycling degrades battery cells the most. There wasn't enough information to really know how bad the degradation really is, and certainly it's almost useless data to make conclusions about real-world battery life.

The sharp decline in capacity shown in the graphs may be a very small % capacity decrease. And apparent cell failure after just a handful of cycles isn't real-world by any means.

What we can gather is that moderate battery temperatures and smaller SOC delta charge cycles is best, but we don't really know how much better. Battery temperature isn't much of an issue since the truck will manage it and won't let it get (or stay) in a critical range.

I base my assertion on users' reported battery state of health from Car Scanner. We'll know more as the trucks age and people put more miles on them. But if the worst we've seen so far is a couple percent at most, I think it's safe to say battery degradation will not be a significant issue long-term.


As I stated above, I haven't seen reported SOH dropping much at all. For my truck, it is three years old, 15k miles, and 100% SOH. It sat at the dealer for almost two years and I got it with 4k miles, so I have no idea how it was charged. But if I presently have 100% SOH, I can't image battery health being an issue during the lifetime of the truck.

If I remember correctly, the person who did the battery testing as part of their job, that gave us degradation data, sttled on charging to 85% as max daily for their own Lightning.

 

[RocketGhost]

There’s no reason to think the Lightning’s batteries behave any differently than the same NMC cells used elsewhere. It’s the same chemistry, same rules.
...
Saying we can't judge the Lightning's battery yet is like saying a Chevy V8 that's been used for ten years suddenly has unknown reliability just because it's now in a GMC.

It's more like saying a Chevy V8 tested in a lab, or used in an airplane, suddenly has unknown reliability because it's now in a truck. You have some good guesses, but won't really know until you get real-world data. It's not uncommon for unforeseen problems to crop up.

There are indeed fundamental characteristics of NMC cells. But their use applications introduce significant variables that may greatly affect their performance. You can't expect a camera battery to behave the same as a battery in a truck. Temperature, load variability, charging and power management systems, etc. are very, very different.

If I remember correctly, the person who did the battery testing as part of their job, that gave us degradation data, sttled on charging to 85% as max daily for their own Lightning.

The overarching point I was trying to make is that what's "best" and "good enough" may not make much difference. Charging to 85% vs. 90% may very well give you 0.1% less degradation per 100k miles... we don't really know. In the real world, the benefit may be miniscule such that practically it doesn't matter. Many people spend considerable effort researching and implementing the "best" charging strategy and it may not give any practical benefit.

I'm basing my opinion (which is just an only slightly educated opinion) on users' reported actual battery health. I haven't seen anyone report significant degradation. Time will tell as our trucks age and get more miles on them. But it seems Ford does a great job with how it manages the battery to preserve health.

My advice is to charge however you want and stay in Ford's recommendation of charging to 90% for regular use.

 

[Firn]

It's more like saying a Chevy V8 tested in a lab, or used in an airplane, suddenly has unknown reliability because it's now in a truck. You have some good guesses, but won't really know until you get real-world data. It's not uncommon for unforeseen problems to crop up.

There are indeed fundamental characteristics of NMC cells. But their use applications introduce significant variables that may greatly affect their performance. You can't expect a camera battery to behave the same as a battery in a truck. Temperature, load variability, charging and power management systems, etc. are very, very different.


The overarching point I was trying to make is that what's "best" and "good enough" may not make much difference. Charging to 85% vs. 90% may very well give you 0.1% less degradation per 100k miles... we don't really know. In the real world, the benefit may be miniscule such that practically it doesn't matter. Many people spend considerable effort researching and implementing the "best" charging strategy and it may not give any practical benefit.

I'm basing my opinion (which is just an only slightly educated opinion) on users' reported actual battery health. I haven't seen anyone report significant degradation. Time will tell as our trucks age and get more miles on them. But it seems Ford does a great job with how it manages the battery to preserve health.

My advice is to charge however you want and stay in Ford's recommendation of charging to 90% for regular use.

NMC has been in practical use for nearly two decades now, has been used in millions, if not billions of devices, and has been used in electric vehicles for over a decade with many BILLIONS of miles accumulated, that IS real-world data.

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