Something about this really stinks...

[Rice_classic]

When charging starts to get measured in Megawatts, we are in wild territory.

Game changer for big vehicles and vehicles towing. No need for an EREV if a recharge is <10 min.

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[TaxmanHog]

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

https://www.engadget.com/transporta...ect-of-whistleblower-complaint-142133269.html

 

[electricpig]

https://www.engadget.com/transporta...ect-of-whistleblower-complaint-142133269.html

Surely few of you are surprised. It's wrecked of "exaggeration" from the start.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Surely few of you are surprised. It's wrecked of "exaggeration" from the start.

I'm not at all surprised. This was always nonsense.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

Waiting for someone (anyone) to measure and weigh a Donut battery - to confirm energy density.
Waiting for people who actually buy the motorcycle to report back on any battery issues during charging & use, and confirm the 5C charging rate.

 

[The Weatherman]

Can’t say I’m happy about it, but I think the chickens are about to come home to roost.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

The complaint says that Donut Labs exaggerated the energy density and charging cycles.
These are also the two parameters that the weekly testing Donut issued didn't answer.
It would be very simple to measure and weigh a cell - this could have formed part of a VTT test but they were not instructed to do it. To Not do such a basic and simple measure bothered me.

As to the cycle count claimed as "100,000 charge cycles" Donut eventually admitted this has not been confirmed and is based on extrapolation. I don't see a need for 100,000 charge cycles in any electric vehicle - I would have been happy to see results of successive 5C charge and discharge cycling of a single cell to illustrate at the least a few thousand cycles. Again when they didn't do this as part of the information release it bothered me.

The legal action doesn't seem to include any critique of the 5C charging rate, or the temperatures the battery can take. It also doesn't suggest the cells are not actually solid state either. Still an impressive cell if the cycle counts are at least reasonable, and the temperatures are validated by real world use. To me, there is more to know before I can judge them.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Can’t say I’m happy about it, but I think the chickens are about to come home to roost.

The Benz EQS for 2027 looks enticing, I need to hit the Mega-Millions

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

The complaint says that Donut Labs exaggerated the energy density and charging cycles.
These are also the two parameters that the weekly testing Donut issued didn't answer.
It would be very simple to measure and weigh a cell - this could have formed part of a VTT test but they were not instructed to do it. To Not do such a basic and simple measure bothered me.

As to the cycle count claimed as "100,000 charge cycles" Donut eventually admitted this has not been confirmed and is based on extrapolation. I don't see a need for 100,000 charge cycles in any electric vehicle - I would have been happy to see results of successive 5C charge and discharge cycling of a single cell to illustrate at the least a few thousand cycles. Again when they didn't do this as part of the information release it bothered me.

The legal action doesn't seem to include any critique of the 5C charging rate, or the temperatures the battery can take. It also doesn't suggest the cells are not actually solid state either. Still an impressive cell if the cycle counts are at least reasonable, and the temperatures are validated by real world use. To me, there is more to know before I can judge them.

Charging/discharging at 5C, or even 11C isn't unique to non-liquid electrolytes. I've done it (5C) once on my LFP home batteries.

The structural vacuum seal failed at or below 100C and the pouch swelled after continued resting. That swelling is indicative of liquid electrolytes.

The DL cells tested by VTT failed to retain their original 25 Ah capacity after being charged at 5C for 50 straight cycles. They collapsed 55% to 11 Ah capacity.

There is no evidence that DL even delivered solid-state cells to VTT for testing, much less that they can produce them at scale.

 

[Shmoe]

Charging/discharging at 5C, or even 11C isn't unique to non-liquid electrolytes. I've done it (5C) once on my LFP home batteries.

The structural vacuum seal failed at or below 100C and the pouch swelled after continued resting. That swelling is indicative of liquid electrolytes.

The DL cells tested by VTT failed to retain their original 25 Ah capacity after being charged at 5C for 50 straight cycles. They collapsed 55% to 11 Ah capacity.

There is no evidence that DL even delivered solid-state cells to VTT for testing, much less that they can produce them at scale.

Heavens no! You're saying all this obfuscation was for clicks and attention!?

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

Charging/discharging at 5C, or even 11C isn't unique to non-liquid electrolytes. I've done it (5C) once on my LFP home batteries.

The structural vacuum seal failed at or below 100C and the pouch swelled after continued resting. That swelling is indicative of liquid electrolytes.

The DL cells tested by VTT failed to retain their original 25 Ah capacity after being charged at 5C for 50 straight cycles. They collapsed 55% to 11 Ah capacity.

There is no evidence that DL even delivered solid-state cells to VTT for testing, much less that they can produce them at scale.

The vac seal failed - above 80C (176F) the loss of capacity after the over temp failure and vac seal - and no liquid leaked out. The cell retained the 11Ah capacity even after the over heating event. The cell tested is clearly not liquid electrolyte. Whether it is truely solid state or not is cetainly not clear at this point, but no LFP cell can operate at 80 degrees C /176F and continue to hold half it's capacity.

 

[DavidS]

The Benz EQS for 2027 looks enticing, I need to hit the Mega-Millions

The C class is coming soon too for less money and you won’t need to tint the windows out of shame.

 

[TaxmanHog]

The C class is coming soon too for less money and you won’t need to tint the windows out of shame.

I spoiled the Secretary of my Treasury with an E class, she won't go backward, but she also isn't an EV enthusiast either, it's likely we won't trade up.

 

[DavidS]

I spoiled the Secretary of my Treasury with an E class, she won't go backward, but she also isn't an EV enthusiast either, it's likely we won't trade up.

Well you can get an off lease EQS or EQE right now for less money than a new Lightning. Tons under $50k.

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