The Lightning had working prototypes pulling trains on camera more than 2 years before orders opened up. Where's the T3?

[Pioneer74]

Ok - I am really curious on how your are counting F150 generations. As far as I know, we are currently in the 14th generation....

2021+ is Gen 14.

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[HammaHamma]

I don't see how that combination will sell to serious truck users for a long while.

This class of truck doesn't need a discrete frame. How many people pull their 150's bed off for an alternative? Zero. I'll take a stronger package vs wasted mass. Body on frame is a result of incompetent engineering, not unicorn design. The cybertruck isn't in the 150's class because it was designed right. Ford is going to have to respond appropriately, or continue to stumble. The EV packaging requirements are completely different than ICE, as are the body requirements. Cab on frame was a crutch for all sorts of poor design choices from engine to chassis dynamics.

 

[Heliian]

doesn't need a discrete frame.

It doesn't matter what you think is better, it matters what's going to sell and be serviceable and cost effective.

I drove a ridgeline for 10 years and am fully aware of the pros and cons of a unibody design but there must be a reason why no other half ton has gone that route yet.

The cyberbucket hasn't had any actual specs attached to it yet so no comparison of capabilities can be made, we'll see.

Battery packs need to be serviceable too and I really like the modular design.

 

[djwildstar]

Ok - I am really curious on how your are counting F150 generations. As far as I know, we are currently in the 14th generation....

I was using the AutoList list of F-150 generations. My understanding is that we're in the 1st generation of the F-150 Lightning, the 9th generation of F-150 trucks, and the 14th generation of F-series trucks.

The 1st generation (1948-1952) was the F-1, F-2, F-3, and F-4. There were 5 generations of F-100's before the F-150 was introduced in 1975. A lot like the F-150 Lightning, the original F-150 was introduced mid-generation: the 6th-generation F-100 was introduced in 1973, and the "heavy half-ton" F-150 was introduced in 1975 to fill the gap between the F-100 and the three-quarter-ton F-250 (and to conveniently avoid some emissions-control restrictions). The F-100 was produced until 1983.

 

[KevinC]

Yup. The minute they show it, sales of the Lightning drop off.

Or they shoot through the roof because people hate the T3... who knows.

 

[djwildstar]

This class of truck doesn't need a discrete frame. [...] I'll take a stronger package vs wasted mass. Body on frame is a result of incompetent engineering, not unicorn design.

As with a lot of mechanical engineering, body-on-frame versus unibody is a study in tradeoffs. There isn't a single universal answer that is better for all use cases: lighter, stronger, and easier to manufacture. So if you're going to call body-on-frame designs "incompetent", you've insulted a lot of engineers at Ford, GM, Ram, Jeep, Toyota, and Nissan.

Body-on-Frame construction is generally associated with more durability, higher towing capacity, higher payload, and lower-cost manufacturing. It also tends to be heavier, less comfortable on the road, and harder to make safe in an accident. There are very good reasons why most full-size ICE pickup trucks still tend to be body-on-frame construction, as do many of the more off-road-oriented SUVs.

Unibody designs tend to be lighter in weight (and therefore have better efficiency), can be engineered to be safer due to crumple zones, and have better handling and a more comfortable ride. They're also less rugged and more expensive to manufacture or repair. Most smaller pickups, crossover SUVs, and passenger cars tend to be unibody for the weight, safety, and ride benefits.

I will be very interested to see how the full-size EV pickups fare. Ford and Ram are going the body-on-frame route, which retains the durability of ICE pickups while allowing them to put the battery pack between the frame rails. This saves space, but limits the overall battery pack size. Rivian and Chevy are hybrid unibody designs: Rivian is basically a unibody on a "skateboard" while the Silverado EV sounds like it will be something similar (albeit with a "skateboard" built out of a structural battery pack). It is increasingly looking like the Cybertruck will be a straight-up unibody pickup (marketing claims about a "exoskeleton" construction aside). Historically, full-size unibody pickups haven't aged well.

 

[HammaHamma]

The cyberbucket hasn't had any actual specs attached to it yet so no comparison of capabilities can be made, we'll see.

Battery packs need to be serviceable too and I really like the modular design.

It's not a matter of opinion. That's like saying it's opinion that transmission fluid and engine oil are different products entirely. For less mass, a unified structure of significantly higher strength can be had. Easily 3-4x the torsional strength. I'm not talking a ridgeline competitor, I'm talking strength that exceeds that of a 250. Given the advantages that castings provide, quality would go through the roof. Factory floorspace requirements drop into fractions, as does the manpower required. That's the minimum it's going to take to remain competitive.

The F150 frunk could loose 8" of OAL while still retaining substantial utility, particularly if we could get a 6.5' bed that has options for side access (between rear wheel and rear passenger door). Not in the way that rivian does it, but in a manner where ~18" can be partitioned off / covered (if desired) with side access doors retaining an open 5' of bed while still retaining full-length "shelf" space for say 4x8 boards on top of said additional storage area. The area could be ~20" deep per side, leaving 2' of open space for 10' lumber at bed level, etc... It could be something accessed from the cab via fold-down rear seats.

Basically tweak the design enough to get a 6.5' bed with a 3klb payload (depending on trim / options). ~9900lb GVWR, 15klb towing w/ 'max tow', 12klb minimum. Take the suspension up a notch allowing any trim to option an adjustable height suspension with self leveling with an upgrade for halo trims for active cornering ala virtual active sway bars. An evolution of sorts for what's found on the GT. Ford needs to start raising the bar, not chasing others. Ford should just go for it and make a platform that leaves everyone speechless. Is it really too much to ask?

 

[vandy1981]

there must be a reason why no other half ton has gone that route yet.

I think it's because there is an irrational preference for body on frame among truck owners.

There are NVH benefits with body on frame, especially when towing, but otherwise offers no benefit to 90%+ of half ton buyers.

 

[DeluxeStang]

If they're smart about it, it won't share the F150's body, though will be inspired by it / share design cues. Shrink the frontal area putting it into bed length instead. 6.5' bed.

This. According to people who've seen it, it's very futuristic, but in a good way. Not like the upcoming electric explorer which apparently looks like a funky mash up of the mid 2000s Prius and model x. Cab forward design, looks like a late 90s/early 2000s f-150 redesigned for the year 2050, very radical looking, but again, in a good way.

 

[DeluxeStang]

From the little information I know, there are current Lightning trucks fitted with the prototype next-gen drivetrains driving around. You probably won't see a full production ready prototype driving around until next year.

It was easy to make an early production Lightning and that it why you saw it so early. All they had to do was build a truck, take the ICE drivetrain out and install the electric drivetrain. The new truck is totally different.

I don't have a lot of information on the new Lightning because the engineers I get my information from aren't working on it. They are working on the next gen ICE truck. I have some good dirt on that.

Dish out some dirt on that I guess. Guessing the next gen f-150 will be some small changes and improvements, nothing crazy. The same engine lineup with some hybrid assist added to things like the 5.0. Am I close?

 

[DeluxeStang]

The Detroit auto show is in a few weeks, Ford has two reveals planned, one of those is still a mystery. Could it be a t3 concept? Who knows. Ford kept the Ford gt supercar and atlas concept truck, both revealed at Detroit, a complete secret. Who's to say the same won't happen here?

Expect Ford to release more information and teasers on T3 later this year as the cybertruck starts to roll out. They did the same thing with mach-e and the model y.

 

[Pioneer74]

Dish out some dirt on that I guess. Guessing the next gen f-150 will be some small changes and improvements, nothing crazy. The same engine lineup with some hybrid assist added to things like the 5.0. Am I close?

Don't know about engines, but I'm hearing it will be a ground-up redesign. Sounds like the Supercab will be axed too.

 

[RickKeen]

My votes:
1. Minimal Frunk. Cab as far forward as possible. Like a Transit. Use that length for a longer bed and/or cargo versatility behind the 2nd row of seats (side loading cargo area).
2. Lower the load height for the bed. Like seriously lower.
3. Don't care if its frame on rail or hybrid, but don't get cute with the cab intruding into the bed.

 

[GDN]

Don't know about engines, but I'm hearing it will be a ground-up redesign. Sounds like the Supercab will be axed too.

It is way past time to scrap the Supercab. I know there are followers that like that, but not enough to make it worth it. We still don't know how well the Cybertruck will do, but we know major costs in assembly are all the different options and variations, Ford has millions of combinations, Tesla will offer a handful, just like on the Model 3 and Y. The bread and butter of the F150 is the Supercrew. Ford screws that models bottom line to subsidize the others. You've got to get rid of the low performing models, just like small sedans of the last few years, they are gone.

Moving forward unless you can fetch ultra premium price tags you've got to simplify manufacturing and options. That is what Tesla is taking to the other manufactures.

 

[Pioneer74]

Found out another interesting change on the next ICE truck, which I can only assume would make it to the T3. No more panoramic roof. At least in the sense of the one that is currently offered. The next truck will have a glass roof option similar to the Mach-E that doesn't open.

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