Why isn’t the Lightning getting more of the gas F150 market?

[B177y]

you should post on that thread the link to this one - for perspective...

Done.

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[Vulnox]

Well we can agree to disagree. I've had midsize, fullsize, and HD fullsize trucks both gas and diesel. In any case I could stop at a station, pull up to the pump, swipe my debit card, and in 5 minutes or less I was pulling out of the station with another 400 to 500 miles of range.

As far as the cost of the trucks, mine stickers at just shy of $73k. Even with the rebate (which is going away) you're talking $65k. I can easily go online and build an XLT with lots of options for $10k less money.

Something else nobody seems to talk about is the future. I've seen one, maybe two guys who have 100k miles on these EV trucks now. MOST guys are at 50k miles and less. It is very premature to call EV a "superior technology" as I saw it put earlier in this thread when the technology is still in its mainstream infancy. Almost every issue that popped up on my F-250 as it neared and then passed 100k miles was something I could fix at home. I just put a new output shaft seal in it the week before I traded it off actually. ICE trucks have more parts, but they are parts that can be replaced or repaired at home at a generally low cost. What happens when a larger percentage of these EV trucks are reaching high mileage? Are guys going to attempt to replace $4k battery modules at home? Electric drive units at home? Onboard AC to DC converter units at home? I doubt it.

To me, a "superior" technology is one that does a job better at a lower total ownership cost. My Lightning cost more up front, will require 3 stops instead of 1 to get my family to our favorite camping spot with the trailer behind us, and IF I were to keep it after the lease it will almost definitely result in a higher total ownership cost as time passes.

Then build an XLT for "easily" $10k less and show me. You are working on hypotheticals when I actually did what you are saying. I even gave you the numbers. It was not $10k difference. I get "we can agree to disagree" when two people are working on actual data but just disagree on the interpretation of the data. I provided you data and you provided me a number that I can't reproduce, especially when you say "lots of options" but I don't compare lots of options, I compare like for like. A Flash is basically between an XLT and Lariat, it's essentially the 500a package on ICE F-150s that you can't get any longer.

As to your reliability question, everyone talks about that stuff, all the time. And EVs aren't really in their infancy, we have been driving EVs for 20+ years when you include Tesla and Hybrids, there are hybrid Escapes doing taxi duty in New York (or were as of like 6 ish years ago) that had 500+k miles on them and original battery. There are million mile Teslas out there. Although vehicles like the Lightning are only a few years old, Ford had the Focus Electric before it which we also owned and the only thing that ever broke on it was the steering rack, which had nothing to do with it being an EV.

As to your ICE comparisons, this is another area you seem to be picking and choosing your data point. The Lightning has tons of user serviceable parts, but saying that ICE vehicles are more serviceable is so far outside of being accurate. Maybe a 20+ year old truck, but almost any modern ICE F-150 people have to get professional assistance on a lot of the work. Ford is locking down the ECU and other modules with encryption so Forscan doesn't work on all the modules, making replacement and reprogramming without the correct (expensive) adapter a challenge. The ICE vehicles are so module/computer driven that even diagnosing them is difficult.

You then think a good counter argument is that the parts that broke on your ICE F-250 were user serviceable, but they were probably almost all parts a Lightning doesn't even have. So a vehicle is more reliable because it has parts that break, but you can fix it at home? The less reliable vehicle is the one that doesn't have those parts, but hypothetically the parts it does have might be tough to do at home, so it's probably less reliable. Okay.

Replacing battery modules is more like replacing a camshaft. It's a major tear down. Even if you are comfortable replacing a camshaft on your F-250, 95% of vehicle owners aren't. For most people, if the transmission blows (seemingly all too common these days at 100k+ miles) or fuel injectors fail or whatever else, people are taking it to a mechanic anyway. Even people that were fine working on their own vehicles 20+ years ago, because modern ICE vehicles are crazy complex, even the parts that have the same name as what they used to work on as a kid, because even the individual components have become computer controlled.

 

[hturnerfamily]

'Superior' is also a very Subjective term... your version might be a completely differing definition than someone else's...

but, in the end, none of these LIGHTNINGS, or TESLAS, or LEAFS or similar long-term EVs in the market are showing any type of 'sudden death', as some EV naysayers will proclaim as 'coming in the near future' for EVs...

battery power is little different than engine power, other than they use two different methods to put power to the wheels... neither is going to 'die' suddenly, under most common and average conditions...

neither one is necessarily 'Superior', they are just different...

 

[MM in SouthTX]

I just stopped in to see what was up on this forum. Still a lot of people arguing past each other I see. The Lightning either works for you or it doesn't. No reason to convince other people. I gave it almost two years, but it didn't work for me. Love my PowerBoost.

No reason to tell other people what they should be happy with. Just be happy with your choice and let others be!

 

[Yellow Buddy]

I just stopped in to see what was up on this forum. Still a lot of people arguing past each other I see. The Lightning either works for you or it doesn't. No reason to convince other people. I gave it almost two years, but it didn't work for me. Love my PowerBoost.

No reason to tell other people what they should be happy with. Just be happy with your choice and let others be!

Care to elaborate? I think it would help others who come to read on why you didn't find it good for you. I know plenty of folks who bought the Lightning as their first truck and EV, and that was an even bigger adjustment than say a F150 Powerboost buyer going to a F150 Lightning so I think your rationale would be helpful.

IMO, 2 years is plenty of time to get adjusted so if it didn't work I think that's a fair shot.

That said....would a Lightning with a state of the art solid state sodium based battery made out of graphene on 1000V architecture get you back into one?

 

[Yellow Buddy]

'Superior' is also a very Subjective term... your version might be a completely differing definition than someone else's...

I think this is the key.

I personally think an EV is superior in smoothness and acceleration.
I also think driving engagement and fun is far superior with a manual transmission and clutch.
I think a 2 seat convertible is superior in the fall, but a 4 seat hard top convertible is superior when there's uncertain weather and I have the kids, then nothing beats a minivan...unless I need to haul trash then having the separation of a bed/cab is superior.

I think not having to take a car for an oil change every month is phenomenal, as is not having to replace the brakes; but I've never gone through this many tires and who knew onboard chargers were so expensive!

I love the stability, the heft and low center gravity of an EV for that superior handling, but nothing beats a lightweight sports car - simplify then add lightness...

The perfect vehicle doesn't exist. In the end these machines are tools, works of arts in some cases, and they're to be appreciated for what they are and for the use case they are. Gas vs Electric has no right answer. If you're driving an EV truck for hotshot hauling, you're likely working against yourself. If you're driving a diesel for a daily 15 mile commute, you're likely doing the same. If either of those makes you feel good about yourself and brings a smile, who cares about the rest?

 

[MM in SouthTX]

Care to elaborate? I think it would help others who come to read on why you didn't find it good for you. I know plenty of folks who bought the Lightning as their first truck and EV, and that was an even bigger adjustment than say a F150 Powerboost buyer going to a F150 Lightning so I think your rationale would be helpful.

IMO, 2 years is plenty of time to get adjusted so if it didn't work I think that's a fair shot.

That said....would a Lightning with a state of the art solid state sodium based battery made out of graphene on 1000V architecture get you back into one?

Oh gosh, I really don’t wanna get drawn back in. Let’s just say that range is a real problem for some people in some environments. I travel too much where there are very few chargers. Speed limits are 75 and roads are empty. The truck gets 1.6 mi/kWh in that scenario. (Please don’t tell me I’m wrong or I’m doing it wrong.)
I loved the truck within 50 miles of my home. I hated it on the road.

i’m going to Houston to pick up a travel trailer from my daughter next week. Towing it to Austin. I would shudder to think about that trip in the Lightning. Yes it’s possible, but not for me. I prefer to add gas anywhere I want and keep going.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

In January 2025, I test drove and compared the F-150 XLT5.0L ICE to the XLT SR Lightning.
With the Ford discount and a further Dealer discount, the Lightning and the ICE were the same price at the time. The Lightning had a number of nice options that are not standard XLT features thou.

I drove the 5L first and it was a nice 'normal' 1/2-ton experience on snow covered city roads. ie the typical problem with 1/2-tons and winter - heavy in front, light in the rear, rear wheel drive unless you put it in 4WH - and then bunny hop when you turn a corner that is bare asphalt.

Five minutes in the Lightning on the same snow covered route and I was amazed. Ford had solved the winter 1/2-ton problem: weight distribution and full time all wheel drive without the bunny hop.
Even on the stock 'all season' tires the truck was Hands Down the best for our winter driving conditions.
So I bought it.

Will it turn out to be a good solid long lasting truck - don't know yet. Hope so.
I know I will not worry about: 10-speed transmission, timing chains, carbon build up on valves, coolant leaking into the engine oil, turbocharger issues, spark plugs seized in the block...kind of stuff.

 

[RickLightning]

Care to elaborate? I think it would help others who come to read on why you didn't find it good for you. I know plenty of folks who bought the Lightning as their first truck and EV, and that was an even bigger adjustment than say a F150 Powerboost buyer going to a F150 Lightning so I think your rationale would be helpful.

IMO, 2 years is plenty of time to get adjusted so if it didn't work I think that's a fair shot.

That said....would a Lightning with a state of the art solid state sodium based battery made out of graphene on 1000V architecture get you back into one?

He has many posts you can go read.

 

[RickKeen]

To me, a "superior" technology is one that does a job better at a lower total ownership cost. My Lightning cost more up front, will require 3 stops instead of 1 to get my family to our favorite camping spot with the trailer behind us, and IF I were to keep it after the lease it will almost definitely result in a higher total ownership cost as time passes.

How often do you go camping vs Daily driving? A couple times per year v. every day?
The amount of time you save NEVER visiting a gas station for daily driving adds up week after week.
And that time you stop to charge on road trips need not be wasted - its a nice large chunk of time - you can do something meaningful like your grocery shopping for your trip, or eat lunch, or walk the dog, or just take a nap. Its not time wasted staring at the gas pump video ads for greasy breakfast sandwiches.

Base list price for a Lightning XLT is $63.5k on Ford's site. The F150 4x4 Supercrew ICE XLT starts at $55.3k, but if you actually configure it to be apples to apples to the Lightning in regards to alloy wheels, a decent engine, and a comparable trim equipment package it creeps up above $60k. With the incentives, the Lightning can be cheaper than a comparably-equipped ICE vehicle.

 

[RickKeen]

The perfect vehicle doesn't exist.

Correct - nobody is building an EV, affordable, full sized, 2 seat convertible roadster. YET.

But I have hopes and dreams.

Meanwhile, on those perfect end of summer road-trip days like last weekend here in MN, the C7 Corvette gets the job done for top-down driving.

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