Charging While Driving w/ Gas Generator in Bed (Range Extender for F-150 Lightning) - Testing

[fhteagle]

Utility electricity sources depend on where you live.

Very true.

Here's the best source I know of to explore the generation mix in any particular place.

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/72h/fifteen_minutes

Not perfect data by any stretch of the imagination, but it's the most legible format that I've seen.

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[Traconesu]

I wouldn't want to drive 60 on the highway, I'd get ran over.

When I recalculate for 70MPH, I get a addition of 88 miles. Considering you'd have to stop for fuel now, as well as charge, it wouldn't be worth it to me. Also, you are still not in Silverado EV territory.

For me, for as much as I have zero love for Chevy, If I had a requirement of greater than 250 miles between DCFC stops, I'd just bite the bullet and get the Chevy.

Here is my math:

Typical driver is going to go from 80% to 15% during a road trip, so 65% battery consumption between charges.

65% of 131KWh is 85.5Kwh consumed between charges. I get about 2.1Mi/KWh when doing 70MPH. 85.15 KWh X 2.1 Mi/KWh is 178.8 miles of usable range between DCFC-ing. Our baseline.

Even though we are driving 70MPH, we are going to average closer to 65MPH when you consider 1 or 2 stops in between. That means it takes us (178.8/65) 2.75 hours to drive that distance.

Which means we are consuming 31KW/h. A 48A charge is going to deliver about 10KW, meaning it reduces the burden on the battery to 21KW/h.

85.15KWh usable between DCFC, used at a rate of 21Kw/h, means 4.1 hours range. At 65MPH average, that is 266.5 miles or 87.7 miles of additional range.

EDIT: For fun I recalculated, using the same math, for towing at 1mi/KWh and the additional range is 15.5 miles between DCFC.

Why don't they people who like this idea just buy a hybrid electric. I'm sure it would be more efficient.

 

[Traconesu]

Martin is about ready to take the first real road trip with this system towing, so look for that in a few weeks.

I can't understand why anyone would want to return to gas. But with this that's what they are doing.

 

[Shaw1984]

I got to make a Tulsa, Gainesville TX, Midland, Amarillo, and back to Tulsa round trip over two days this week in my 2024 Flash. The CWD sounds very interesting to me if it could save some fast charging wait time. I love this truck compared to the ICE version. The amount of maintenance I do not have to do or worry about is fantastic. Driving that far sure takes some time at the charger though.

 

[Traconesu]

We would never sell a product that would allow you to pull off with a charger connected. This is a professional implementation of a feature Ford has already made provisions for behind the scenes. It will be fully tested and 100% safe before we ever offer it to anyone for DIY use.

I'd much prefer seeing a parallel battery connector located in the bed where you could plug in an auxiliary battery than using a generator. That would make much more sense for an all electric vehicle.

 

[PJnc284]

I'd much prefer seeing a parallel battery connector located in the bed where you could plug in an auxiliary battery than using a generator. That would make much more sense for an all electric vehicle.

Then you have to worry about cooling and I'm sure that would open up a whole different can of worms to tie into the existing battery. Not to mention weight and more time spent charging. Now what would be cool is if you could charge both separately but then you'd probably get yelled at for taking 2 stalls. With a 10-gallon tank, OP's generator is like having an extra 60kWh+ battery in the bed but you likely wouldn't go far enough to see the full amount in either a SR or ER as you'd be out of charge long before the tank was empty. OP was only adding about 9.6 kW to the battery while using 30+/hr under fairly ideal conditions and with a generator larger than I'm sure most will have. Increase speed, hit a headwind, elevation or cold temps and it's probably more like 45+ which really cuts down on the benefit of cwd.

For amusement purposes, I ran the numbers to pull my 24ft boat. The one time I tried it, I got about .8mi/kWh over 80 miles @60mph on flat roads and a nice day. So that's just over 100 miles in an ER. That would be about 1:40 of driving but for giggles we'll say I got the same as the OP got in 2 hours (~19kWh). From 100-0, that gets me about 13 extra miles.

 

[ZSC100]

Then you have to worry about cooling and I'm sure that would open up a whole different can of worms to tie into the existing battery. Not to mention weight and more time spent charging. Now what would be cool is if you could charge both separately but then you'd probably get yelled at for taking 2 stalls. With a 10-gallon tank, OP's generator is like having an extra 60kWh+ battery in the bed but you likely wouldn't go far enough to see the full amount in either a SR or ER as you'd be out of charge long before the tank was empty. OP was only adding about 9.6 kW to the battery while using 30+/hr under fairly ideal conditions and with a generator larger than I'm sure most will have. Increase speed, hit a headwind, elevation or cold temps and it's probably more like 45+ which really cuts down on the benefit of cwd.

For amusement purposes, I ran the numbers to pull my 24ft boat. The one time I tried it, I got about .8mi/kWh over 80 miles @60mph on flat roads and a nice day. So that's just over 100 miles in an ER. That would be about 1:40 of driving but for giggles we'll say I got the same as the OP got in 2 hours (~19kWh). From 100-0, that gets me about 13 extra miles.

Power you add to your truck with any source can be put into prospective really easy when you take your speed and divide it by your efficiency, that gives you the KW that it takes to drive at that given speed. Let's take your 24ft boat example 60mph / 0.8mi/kWh = 75kW. If you have an ER and a 20kW+ generator you can reduce that by 19kW with a generator; that's 1/4 of your load so you'd increase your mileage by around 25%. That's not very good and probably not worth the system.

If you take your truck @ 75mph getting 1.9mi/kwhr, that's 39kW, so a 19kW generator would be about half therefore doubling your range.

 

[PJnc284]

A FCSP or Grizzl-e 80 strapped to a 550lb beast sure is an interesting albeit expensive prospect. Was wondering how the limitation of the nema 14/50 would be bypassed but guess you can hardwire. Westinghouse 28,000/20,000-Watt Tri-Fuel Gas, Propane, Natural Gas Powered Portable Generator with Remote Electric Start WGen20000TFc - The Home Depot

"Our exclusive 125A 240V AC lug connector lets a licensed electrician hardwire the generator directly to your home for full power delivery."

13 hrs on 25% load for 17 gallons. Wonder how much 100% would be. ~3 hrs?

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

30 to 50 extra miles could make all the difference sometimes. I love thr idea of having a range extender. I'd probably use a large LFP battery pack in the bed or trailer I'm pulling and a pure-sine-inverter to make the 240V connection.

Working on this now; Warning - TLDR follows...
I have been building an inverter and three 15.5kWh battery packs into a box that fits in the bed with the tonneau cover over it. The system is sized to fit into the truck bed perfectly, but I have plans for it to also power a few other things when not needed in the truck.
The output is max 13.5kW from the inverter - which can power my 48A Grizzl-E charger, after losses the charger feeds 10.3kW to the Lightning. I can't use 80A charger in a SR, and the 48A charger keeps wire sizes breakers and fuses in a range that is easier to work with.

For my use (getting to a remote fishing lake) I need 28kWh on hwy to the access road, then 19kW on the forest roads to the lake. The round trip at 94kWh is "too tight to chance it", and I have power needs while camping that also need some additional reserve power. There is no grid anywhere near the lake. This summer I did the trip but hauled a generator to power the destination charger for a few hours to top up the truck. - hated the noise, but got me through.

I plan to use the auxiliary battery set up instead of a generator, and can do this while parked at the lake, but it would be 'very cool' to be able to charge while driving, in case something 'happens', and I need to return before having time for the auxiliary battery to top off the truck battery.

Running the numbers in my situation:
driving 1 hour 105km/hr main hwy - 28kWh used, but the CWD would add back 10.3 kWh for a net used of 17.7kWh in the first hour of the trip.
Then turn onto the forestry road and drive for 1 hour using 19kWh (slow going gravel roads) and the CWD would add back 10.3 kWh for a net used of only 8.7 kWh.
Arrive at the lake with the Truck SOC at: 98-17.7 -8.7 = 71.6kWh (plenty to turn around and make it home if needed). The Auxiliary battery packs started at 45.5kWh and upon arrival at the lake these are down to 23kWh. Leave the Auxiliary packs charging the Lightning until low voltage shut-off will add a further 20.6 kWh to the truck; 71.6 + 20.6 = 92kWh in the truck while sitting at the lake.

I can use 20 kWh camping/cooking and still have 72kWh for the return trip, and by the numbers arrive back home with 25kWh in the 'tank', or a bit less if wind/cold/rain cut into the efficiency during the return trip. The numbers are encouraging, and even if lower efficiency and higher loads are the reality, there is pleanty to spare.

The test will be using just three of my 15.5kWh battery packs, however I have ten of these, and a couple more could be added to the truck bed, if needed. Three packs weigh 600 lbs and add "net of losses" about 41.5kWh making my SR Lightning into a 139kWh extra-ER when needed.
Next I need to confirm how the LFP packs do under load, watch the temperatures and see how they perform.

 

[ElectrifyingMe25]

Working on this now; Warning - TLDR follows...
I have been building an inverter and three 15.5kWh battery packs into a box that fits in the bed with the tonneau cover over it. The system is sized to fit into the truck bed perfectly, but I have plans for it to also power a few other things when not needed in the truck.
The output is max 13.5kW from the inverter - which can power my 48A Grizzl-E charger, after losses the charger feeds 10.3kW to the Lightning. I can't use 80A charger in a SR, and the 48A charger keeps wire sizes breakers and fuses in a range that is easier to work with.

For my use (getting to a remote fishing lake) I need 28kWh on hwy to the access road, then 19kW on the forest roads to the lake. The round trip at 94kWh is "too tight to chance it", and I have power needs while camping that also need some additional reserve power. There is no grid anywhere near the lake. This summer I did the trip but hauled a generator to power the destination charger for a few hours to top up the truck. - hated the noise, but got me through.

I plan to use the auxiliary battery set up instead of a generator, and can do this while parked at the lake, but it would be 'very cool' to be able to charge while driving, in case something 'happens', and I need to return before having time for the auxiliary battery to top off the truck battery.

Running the numbers in my situation:
driving 1 hour 105km/hr main hwy - 28kWh used, but the CWD would add back 10.3 kWh for a net used of 17.7kWh in the first hour of the trip.
Then turn onto the forestry road and drive for 1 hour using 19kWh (slow going gravel roads) and the CWD would add back 10.3 kWh for a net used of only 8.7 kWh.
Arrive at the lake with the Truck SOC at: 98-17.7 -8.7 = 71.6kWh (plenty to turn around and make it home if needed). The Auxiliary battery packs started at 45.5kWh and upon arrival at the lake these are down to 23kWh. Leave the Auxiliary packs charging the Lightning until low voltage shut-off will add a further 20.6 kWh to the truck; 71.6 + 20.6 = 92kWh in the truck while sitting at the lake.

I can use 20 kWh camping/cooking and still have 72kWh for the return trip, and by the numbers arrive back home with 25kWh in the 'tank', or a bit less if wind/cold/rain cut into the efficiency during the return trip. The numbers are encouraging, and even if lower efficiency and higher loads are the reality, there is pleanty to spare.

The test will be using just three of my 15.5kWh battery packs, however I have ten of these, and a couple more could be added to the truck bed, if needed. Three packs weigh 600 lbs and add "net of losses" about 41.5kWh making my SR Lightning into a 139kWh extra-ER when needed.
Next I need to confirm how the LFP packs do under load, watch the temperatures and see how they perform.

Bravo, my good man. I am proud of your innovation and determination. You are making a great contribution to the CWD efforts.

I look forward to hearing about your results.

 

[Traconesu]

Then you have to worry about cooling and I'm sure that would open up a whole different can of worms to tie into the existing battery. Not to mention weight and more time spent charging. Now what would be cool is if you could charge both separately but then you'd probably get yelled at for taking 2 stalls. With a 10-gallon tank, OP's generator is like having an extra 60kWh+ battery in the bed but you likely wouldn't go far enough to see the full amount in either a SR or ER as you'd be out of charge long before the tank was empty. OP was only adding about 9.6 kW to the battery while using 30+/hr under fairly ideal conditions and with a generator larger than I'm sure most will have. Increase speed, hit a headwind, elevation or cold temps and it's probably more like 45+ which really cuts down on the benefit of cwd.

For amusement purposes, I ran the numbers to pull my 24ft boat. The one time I tried it, I got about .8mi/kWh over 80 miles @60mph on flat roads and a nice day. So that's just over 100 miles in an ER. That would be about 1:40 of driving but for giggles we'll say I got the same as the OP got in 2 hours (~19kWh). From 100-0, that gets me about 13 extra miles.

All this is why I wouldn't have purchased my lightning if I had to depend on public chargers. I drive locally, no public chargers and often use my excess solar to charge my truck. My round trips into town seldom exceed 60 miles total. And only 2-3 trips a week. Sometimes 1 per week.

 

[scruvs]

This is why we're simply making a DIY bed port kit that enables CWD.

Is it safe to assume that it's much harder to move CCS to that driver-side bed location instead of only adding J1772? I'd love to have a CCS port in that location for Tesla Superchargers.

 

[ZSC100]

Is it safe to assume that it's much harder to move CCS to that driver-side bed location instead of only adding J1772? I'd love to have a CCS port in that location for Tesla Superchargers.

It's doable, and I've done it, but yes there are lots of complications and cost associated. The wire to play it safe without having to do lots of temperature monitoring is expensive and hard to deal with.

And, again, TE Connectivity has absolutely Tier 1 locked all the HVDC connectors from the public so to make this mod you have to splice cables which lots of owners are scared to death to do, thinking it will void their warranty and such. It's really sad this power of fear that the OEMS wield over owners. It stifles creativity and innovation.

 

[fhteagle]

It's doable, and I've done it, but yes there are lots of complications and cost associated. The wire to play it safe without having to do lots of temperature monitoring is expensive and hard to deal with.

Are y'all contemplating this being an option in the CWD kit ecosystem?

 

[ZSC100]

Not at this

Are y'all contemplating this being an option in the CWD kit ecosystem?

Not at this time. It's about $500 in parts and the market research I've done just doesn't show demand.

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