I need someone to help me respond to this if possible.

[tearitupsports]

Upon further reflection...

Perhaps the grounding electrode system of the house to which the Lightning ground system is connected would suffice as the code required "grounding electrode system," as apparently shown by Lorenzo Mari in the figure below, who is an expert in grounding systems - see his bio below. After all it is "connected to the ground terminal on the portable generator" (Lightning PPOB) via the ground wire through the GENERAC and the service panel.

However, since there are apparently conflicting opinions on this, I would err on the side of another grounding electrode system near the truck.

So, I wonder where would be a good place to connect a grounding electrode conductor to the Lightning?

Portable generators often provide an easily accessible ground lug suitable for earth grounding connections. Somewhere easily accessible near the PPOB outlet at the back of the truck would be best.

Has anyone made a grounding connection for a ground rod on their Lightning?

---------------------------
OPTIONAL Background follows
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GENERAC transfer switch with a bonded generator - grounding requirements

The GENERAC 6853 transfer switch manual says about grounding requirements for use with a bonded generator as a separately derived system:

"...A 'grounding system' and a 'grounding electrode system' shall be 'connected to the ground terminal' on the portable generator. See NEC Article 250.34(A)(4) and (5) for code compliance."

In the NEC, a "grounding electrode system" is the composite of "all installed grounding electrodes" at a building or structure that are bonded together "to provide a low-impedance path to the earth."

The NEC contains a list of items that are permitted to be used as grounding electrodes and requires that if any are present, they must all be used to form the "grounding electrode system."

So all grounding electrodes present at a building or structure should be bonded together to form a single, interconnected "grounding electrode system." And if multiple grounding electrodes are installed at a location, they must all be connected to create one unified system.

There are 8 items that are listed in 250.52 as allowable grounding electrodes: Metal Underground Water Pipe, Concrete-encased Electrode, Metal In-ground Support Structure, Ground Ring, Rod and Pipe Electrodes, Plate Electrodes, Other Listed Electrodes, Other local underground metal systems or structures

Equipment Grounding: This requires connecting non-current-carrying metal parts of the electrical system, like metal boxes, conduits, and appliance frames, to ground.

Grounding System: This comprises all ground wiring, equipment grounding, and generally includes the grounding of the neutral of the electrical system. The purpose is to help stabilize system voltages and aid operation of over-current protection devices during a fault.

A generator equipment frame (e.g., the Lightning chassis) is permitted to be the "grounding system." And on the Lightning, the neutral is bonded to the frame and is part of the grounding system. This "grounding system" is connected to the ground terminal of the Lightning in compliance with code.

Further, when the ProPower OnBoard (PPOB) is powering the house through the GENERAC transfer switch, the "grounding system" via the ground terminal of the PPOB outlet is connected to the GENERAC ground bus, which is in turn connected to the house panel ground bus as in figure 5 below.

The house panel ground bus is connected to a "grounding electrode system," which in my house comprises several outdoor ground rods and an underground cold water pipe.

The NEC requires a "grounding electrode system" for bonded generators when used as a separately derived system, e.g., the Lightning PPOB powering a house. Typically one would see this in the form of a "nearby" ground rod pounded into the earth and connected by a wire to the generator frame.

From what I have read recently, the "nearby" requirement has been loosened/removed and the "grounding electrode system" can be some distance away as long as it provides a low impedance ground path to the earth.

Since the Lightning neutral is bonded to the frame, and the frame is connected to the ground terminal, and the ground terminal is connected to the house "grounding electrode system" and these provide a low impedance path to the earth, then, is a second "grounding electrode system" connected to the Lightning frame required?

Some would say yes, others would apparently say no. The NEC goes through periodic updates and changes, so perhaps that explains why older versions and posts/videos about it, require a nearby grounding electrode connected to the generator frame.

A recent figure by Lorenzo Mari, Figure 5 below, shows what is purported to be a system compliant with the recent NEC code (2023 version) where no additional nearby "grounding electrode system" for the generator is provided (no nearby ground rod to frame). Also note his bio at the end of this post.

The generator grounding electrode system is apparently the grounding electrode at the service equipment (panel).

The "grounding electrode system" from the generator to the grounding electrode has been highlighted in yellow below (the transfer switch in the highlighted image is shown in the generator connected mode where the grounded conductor - neutral - is switched to the load and not directly connected to the utility neutral).

But...

Regardless of Lorenzo Mari's Figure 5 and his expertise, if I want to provide a nearby grounding electrode system for the Lightning, where would be a good place to connect a grounding electrode conductor to the Lightning?

By "good" I mean - easily accessible for connecting to a grounding electrode conductor (#6 wire) and making a good electrical connection to the Lightning chassis (generator frame).

------
BIO: Lorenzo Mari holds a Master of Science degree in Electric Power Engineering from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI). He has been a university professor since 1982, teaching topics as electric circuit analysis, electric machinery, power system analysis, and power system grounding.

As such, he has written many articles to be used by students as learning tools. He also created five courses to be taught to electrical engineers in career development programs, i.e., Electrical Installations in Hazardous Locations, National Electrical Code, Electric Machinery, Power and Electronic Grounding Systems and Electric Power Substations Design. As a professional engineer, Mari has written dozens of technical specifications and other documents regarding electrical equipment and installations for major oil, gas and petrochemical capital projects. He has been EPCC Project Manager for some large oil, gas & petrochemical capital projects where he wrote many managerial documents commonly used in this kind of works.

You keep going back to the Generac system, which is great for those who want that, but it not (on the surface) compatible with the original topic. The Generac transfer switch does not work with Hybrid inverter systems that have an automation transfer switch with generator input. The question at hand is how to make the truck properly and safely work with a Franklin or other brand generator input, where the truck is not the sole source of power, and the entire house loads are still wired to the main, or backup panel. If you can think of a proper wiring scheme to make the Generac work with these sytems, that would be more useful.
In a few years, the bi-directional charger will be the proper and elagant solution.

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[chl]

You keep going back to the Generac system, which is great for those who want that, but it not (on the surface) compatible with the original topic. The Generac transfer switch does not work with Hybrid inverter systems that have an automation transfer switch with generator input. The question at hand is how to make the truck properly and safely work with a Franklin or other brand generator input, where the truck is not the sole source of power, and the entire house loads are still wired to the main, or backup panel. If you can think of a proper wiring scheme to make the Generac work with these sytems, that would be more useful.
In a few years, the bi-directional charger will be the proper and elagant solution.

Sorry, but I did post how to do that in general terms I could have been clearer - review the thread and you will see.

I did something similar with my system because I already had a transfer switch wired for a non-bonded generator, that had to be bypassed when using the Lightning bonded generator through the GENERAC.

The issue of grounding came up as a result on my posting that block diagram and someone saying I hadn't grounded it - I had left off the ground wires for simplification, but then I posted a block diagram WITH the ground wires drawn in.

I think it could be a way to bypass the hybrid inverter system automatic transfer switch, but it would require some rewiring.

In simple terms, you use a GENERAC to switch between the Lightning and the utility, feeding the output to the hybrid inverter transfer switch system which switches between the utility/Lightning (output from the GENERAC output) and the hybrid inverter.

OK, so here I redrew it with the "solar panel hybrid inverter" output and labeled the second transfer switch the "hybrid inverter transfer switch":

So the GENERAC manual transfer switch passes through the utility to the hybrid inverter transfer switch when in utility mode, but when the Lightning is connected and powered it can transfer to that source and pass it through to the hybrid inverter transfer switch.

The hybrid inverter transfer switch would switch between the solar panel hybrid inverter output and the utility/Lightning output from the GENERAC.

In the GENERAC, both the hots and neutral would switch between the utility and the Lightning hots and neutral. I gather that the hybrid inverter transfer switch does not switch the neutrals, only the hots, which is like my old transfer switch. I designed this wiring configuration because I did not want to unwire my old transfer switch and remove it from my basement wall (laziness).

That is the concept.

Sorry I didn't make it clearer by redrawing my system's block diagram, but here it is now.

---------
Disclaimer

I am an electrical engineer but not a licensed electrician.

The information provided in this post is provided for information purposes only and does not constitute any endorsement or recommendation. No warranty, expressed or implied, is made regarding the accuracy, adequacy, completeness, legality, reliability, or usefulness of any information found in this post. It is your responsibility to verify and investigate this information.

 

[Bearcats513]

I am contemplating creating an adapter: `
14-30 30 amp male (plug into the truck) to 14-50 50 female (where I have not connected the female grounding wire to the 14-50 female plug) The 14-50 female plug would then plug into a standard generator cord (14-50 Male to generator inlet).
Truck -> modified adapter cord -> generator cord -> generator inlet box.
I have heard plethora of opinions that this is not to code (which I believe), and that it is inherently dangerous (which I do not believe).
Could someone tell me specifically when (like a scenario) this would be dangerous to me?
Thank you in advance!

 

[tearitupsports]

I am contemplating creating an adapter: `
14-30 30 amp male (plug into the truck) to 14-50 50 female (where I have not connected the female grounding wire to the 14-50 female plug) The 14-50 female plug would then plug into a standard generator cord (14-50 Male to generator inlet).
Truck -> modified adapter cord -> generator cord -> generator inlet box.
I have heard plethora of opinions that this is not to code (which I believe), and that it is inherently dangerous (which I do not believe).
Could someone tell me specifically when (like a scenario) this would be dangerous to me?
Thank you in advance!

When you have 2 different neutral bonded locactions, it turns any ground conductor between them into a normal current carrying conductor (parallel paths). This is why the truck trips, because it senses the current on the ground wire, and/or doesn't see the full return current on the neutral.

When you disconnect the ground pin, it obviously disables that safety.

Therefore if you put yourself in the position of becoming the ground wire (touching any grounded part of the truck while at the same time touching something grounded to your house) while the pro-power is on, you will then become part of the circuit. You are then hoping that the truck trips its breaker before you are killed. If something were to be shorted (such as in the cable) the scenario is even more likely.

Hope that is clear enough.

FWIW I have currently pulled the ground pin on my own installation, but I know to never touch the truck and something on the house at the same time, and it is not safe. As soon as I can get my proper V2X through charger (this coming month), I am going to put the ground pin back in my generator plug and only connect generators without a neutral-ground bond.

Please also note, that the solution with a home battery and generator inlet is never going to be safe with the truck. V2X solutions from Sigenergy, Enphase, and others are going to be the only safe solution for home battery/solar owners. The exception is if you have a 48V battery bank, you can use something that converts your pro-power to DC and charges the batteries directly where you have nothing tying the neutral of the house to that of the truck.
For those with only a generator input and no home battery, you would use a neutral switching transfer switch, but that does not apply to the original post in this thread.

 

[chl]

I am contemplating creating an adapter: `
14-30 30 amp male (plug into the truck) to 14-50 50 female (where I have not connected the female grounding wire to the 14-50 female plug) The 14-50 female plug would then plug into a standard generator cord (14-50 Male to generator inlet).
Truck -> modified adapter cord -> generator cord -> generator inlet box.
I have heard plethora of opinions that this is not to code (which I believe), and that it is inherently dangerous (which I do not believe).
Could someone tell me specifically when (like a scenario) this would be dangerous to me?
Thank you in advance!

Here's one scenario:

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

The exception is if you have a 48V battery bank, you can use something that converts your pro-power to DC and charges the batteries directly where you have nothing tying the neutral of the house to that of the truck

This ^^^^
This is how my property is set up, so the truck just supplies AC power to a dedicated DC charger connected to the main battery bank (48v LFP) and as you say, this is very simple and safe, since there are no N-G loops created.
Feeding a battery bank has another advantage to me, the truck can supply a low, slow steady charging rate and not need to be able to carry a well pump starting up. The in-rush is carried by the big battery bank and the inverters, leaving the truck to just 'trickle-charge'.
At say 30kWh per day, the truck can supply all the house loads with 1250W charge rate, well pumps, furnace fans, even range use can all be run if we need them. And the truck connection is code and safe.

 

[chl]

I have heard plethora of opinions that this is not to code (which I believe), and that it is inherently dangerous (which I do not believe).

BTW, the 'code' (NEC and local adopted codes) is a safety code specifically written to prevent harm to persons and/or property for. e.g, fire or shock/electrocution.

So, by definition not following code could/would be dangerous.

They are not written just for the heck of it, ya know?

 

[GoodSam]

Here's one scenario:

If the 14-50 house circuit being backfed from the truck, without a connecting ground wire between the house and PPOB, had a GFCI on it, would the person be protected?
Since most older houses do not have GFCI protection, most have been living with shock danger for years.
Another question, what happens if Grid to house is not disconnected and PPOB is attempted to be connected?

 

[K6CCC]

If the 14-50 house circuit being backfed from the truck, without a connecting ground wire between the house and PPOB, had a GFCI on it, would the person be protected?

No.

Another question, what happens if Grid to house is not disconnected and PPOB is attempted to be connected?

Most likely sparks, smoke, and a killed inverter on your truck. It is absolutely imperative that the grid is disconnected if you are going to have the truck PPOB connected. This applies whether the grid power is present or not (an outage). Inverters that are able to be connected in parallel to another power source have to be designed for that type of service. If not, the aforementioned smoke, sparks, and a killed inverter would apply. I fully assume that the PPOB inverters are NOT designed for parallel operation. In the event that the grid is off and you just plug into a inlet plug without disconnecting the (dead) grid, you will be attempting to supply power to the grid. First of all, your PPOB inverters are no where near large enough to power your neighborhood, and far worse, is you be energizing the distribution line that is expected to be un-powered (because of the outage). That means that if a utility worker grabs that line, they will be in for a huge shock (can kill them).

NEVER connect your house to the PPOB without proper circuit isolation. By code that can not simply be a note to turn off the main before hooking up your generator / PPOB. It MUST be an interlock that prevents doing so.

 

[chl]

If the 14-50 house circuit being backfed from the truck, without a connecting ground wire between the house and PPOB, had a GFCI on it, would the person be protected?
Since most older houses do not have GFCI protection, most have been living with shock danger for years.
Another question, what happens if Grid to house is not disconnected and PPOB is attempted to be connected?

Question 1: Yes, a GFCI in the house would would work - it would disconnect the outlet, but not the source (the PPOB). The house panel splits the 240VAC it gets into two 120VAC buses, and conceptually sends 120v through a hot wire to a load and back to the panel through a neutral wire. Each circuit also has a ground wire that goes back to the panel where the neutral is bonded and grounded. So, if that load has GFCI protection and there is a ground fault, the current in the hot wire will differ from the current in the neutral and the GFCI will open.

But not all outlets are GFCI of course.
In my area there are still a lot of houses without GFCI some without even 3-prong receptacles!
But that was just ONE scenario. There is another one too:
Think about this.
The neutral in the PPOB of the Lightning is bonded to the body of the truck.
If there is no ground from the Lightning to the house, and no neutral switching transfer switch is use, then in the house panel the neutral is still bonded and earth grounded.
So suppose the ground is wet and someone touches the body of the truck while it is powering the house.
That person becomes part of a return path for the neutral current from the house panel back to the Lightning, part of a ground loop.
That should trip the GFCI after the person gets a shock.
The level of current will depend on the resistance of the person's body.
If it was someone who was barefoot and wet from getting out of a pool let's say, their electrical resistance will be a lot lower than normal.
Suppose they have a pacemaker or a heart condition.

Anything over 30 volts is considered to be harmful and potentially lethal in wet conditions according to long established guidelines.
The neutral bonded to the truck could be at a much higher potential voltage wrt to ground than that.

In question 2, potentially really bad things, could happen if the PPOB is not run through a transfer switch which maybe is what you are asking about? Through a properly wired neutral switching transfer switch, the grid powered circuits and the PPOB powered circuits are isolated electrically, so nothing bad will happen.

If the neutrals are not isolated, then the GFCI will open and report a ground fault.

With no transfer switch, the PPOB GFCI should shut off the PPOB.

If it didn't, that's a worst case scenarios!

Consider that the AC voltages in the truck and from the grid will not likely be in phase so they could produce higher voltage peaks than normal, higher than the connected equipment might be able to withstand.

What that is, is called "back-feeding."

Key Dangers of Backfeeding:

• Electrocution of Utility Workers: Power flowing back into the grid can surprise and kill linemen working to restore power, as they believe the lines are de-energized.
• Fire Hazards: Improperly connected generators can overload home wiring, causing electrical fires, particularly if the generator is connected via a "suicide cable" (male-to-male cord).
• Destruction of Equipment: When grid power is restored, the intersection with generator power can destroy the generator, damage household appliances, and harm the electrical panel.
• High-Voltage Risk: A generator can send voltage back through a transformer and significantly increase the voltage on local power lines, creating a massive safety hazard.

How to Prevent Backfeeding:

• Use a Transfer Switch: Have a qualified electrician install a proper transfer switch, which acts as a safety barrier between the generator and the utility lines.
• Never Use "Suicide Cables": Avoid using dangerous cables with two male ends to connect a generator to a wall outlet.
• Disconnect from Grid: Ensure the main breaker is turned off if a transfer switch is not used, though a transfer switch is strongly recommended.
• Follow Safety Protocols: Keep generator power and utility power isolated at all times

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