2023 F-150 Lightning: battery hit 419°F with zero warning, zero fault code, zero shutdown

[chl]

The idea that a bad thermistor temp sensor can shut down a whole truck is a disturbing engineering failure.

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[TaxmanHog]

As others have suggested, this is likely a wide open or shorted thermistor.

If the cooling circuit was at super boiling temperatures, some of the heat would have migrated to the motors, causing the motor temperature to elevate as well, maybe not to the extreme, but higher.

The systems are trying to protect your powertrain enlight of the false data point.

Why the technicians haven't figured out a solution is disappointing.

Side note based my years of experience in my former employment, when a taxpayer files suit or bankruptcy, all general customer service functions and basic collection contacts would cease activities and refer ALL contact attempts from the taxpayer to only the legal department, be it suit or bankruptcy specialists & legal counsel.

So, the deeper you go public about the threats the tighter the lips of the MoCo will be.

Lighten up and lets get engineers on this to fix the problem(s)

 

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[Maquis]

You missed the “Zero fault code” fact.

 

[Free Charging]

You missed the “Zero fault code” fact.

I lean towards verbose, obviously AI generated content as being likely inconsistent, and I’m betting incomplete.

In any case I think the legal threats out the gate are slowing down this process for this owner.

 

[chl]

As others have suggested, this is likely a wide open or shorted thermistor.

If the cooling circuit was at super boiling temperatures, some of the heat would have migrated to the motors, causing the motor temperature to elevate as well, maybe not to the extreme, but higher.

The systems are trying to protect your powertrain enlight of the false data point.

Why the technicians haven't figured out a solution is disappointing.

Side note based my years of experience in my former employment, when a taxpayer files suit or bankruptcy, all general customer service functions and basic collection contacts would cease activities and refer ALL contact attempts from the taxpayer to only the legal department, be it suit or bankruptcy specialists & legal counsel.

So, the deeper you go public about the threats the tighter the lips of the MoCo will be.

Lighten up and lets get engineers on this to fix the problem(s)

True about filing suit or even 'threats' sometimes...but how long should one have to wait?
How long do we give them the benefit of the doubt?
Already been 8 weeks in the shop, no loaner, obviously costing the OP time and money.
At some point, patience wears out.

Sad to say it, but sometimes telling folks that I am a lawyer, like my insurance company, gets things moving in the right direction sooner rather than never. I prefer to do things the friendly way of course, with assertiveness, persistence, knowledge, and "empathy."

With Ford, in this case, the problem might be the dealership's techs lack of knowledge/experience rather than an intentional failure to fix the problem.

But with the possibility of a very expensive battery replacement, one never knows.
Some dealerships are not thrilled about selling and servicing EVs either.

We saw the recent case of a rear-ender where the insurance company and the dealership apparently did not want to repair the truck and preferred to total it.

Thankfully, Ford MoCo stepped in and solved that one...of course the YouTube video about that issue probably didn't hurt?

We all hope Ford comes through in the OP's situation.
The communication the OP is getting from the Ford dealerships seems lacking.

If I were in his shoes, I'd be a little bit PO'ed at this point.

 

[chl]

I lean towards verbose, obviously AI generated content as being likely inconsistent, and I’m betting incomplete.

In any case I think the legal threats out the gate are slowing down this process for this owner.

I think the Ford techs may have tried that fix from the OP's post 1 - referred to the dealership trying that:

"Ford has floated three different theories (a recall software update, a TSB for an air-dam warning message I never even got, and a charging port swap) — none confirmed as root cause, and the fault keeps coming back..."

Haven't read the full write up in the link though, so maybe they didn't.

But if as I assumed they did, then the problem is a hardware issue with a thermister somewhere deep in the bowls of the battery modules perhaps, an expensive repair.

 

[TaxmanHog]

No doubt the OP is rightfully frustrated.

We need the corporate engineering team to get with the technician on the ground and properly diagnose the root issue(s) then fix the matter.

 

[Dahveed]

No doubt the OP is rightfully frustrated.

We need the corporate engineering team to get with the technician on the ground and properly diagnose the root issue(s) then fix the matter.

And at the end of the matter, it's battery related and should be covered under the 8yr/100k mile EV component warranty. If they can't figure out which sensor is the issue, well, it's probably time for Ford to pony up for a new battery.

 

[RickLightning]

OP, have you filed a formal Safety Complaint at NHTSA?

Yes, his website states it.

 

[Aminorjourney]

The idea that a bad thermistor temp sensor can shut down a whole truck is a disturbing engineering failure.

Alas, that's quite common.

My colleague used to have a Volt - but because two thermistors died (and GM was unwilling to really work on replacing them) they ended upsetting into a Bolt instead.

My Vectrix VX-1 was designed initially without ANY thermal management (NiMH cells) and for whatever reason, someone decided to add them last-minute.

I spoke to the engineer who was on the team responsible for it. And by that I mean one person. He had to pull all-nighters, ended up getting the boards designed and working, but because Vectrix rushed the production, they never had proper conformal coating.

15+ years later, and VX-1 owners are regularly reporting their bikes dying because the thermistors/temperature boards are dying.

Yes, I'm upgrading my bike to LiIon - and yes I'll be building my own thermistor sensor setup.

 

[Heliian]

The idea that a bad thermistor temp sensor can shut down a whole truck is a disturbing engineering failure.

Better safe than on fire.

I had a cylinder head temp sensor fail in my 2019 2.7l and it went into limp mode. Had a fuel pump fail in another car and it shut down. Had a coil pack fail in another car and it shut down. Things break, it's not a big deal IF you know how to fix it.

On another note, 50/50 motorcraft coolant boils at 265 deg F maybe 300f under pressure. It's most likely the module or sensor. They need to start throwing parts at it.

 

[thorndike]

I realize and appreciate that the first instinct is to try and figure out the problem (particularly as an engineer, that is my first instinct as well), but I think the bigger issue here is that the dealer has reproduced the issue multiple times and corporate is stonewalling rather than constructively moving forward. Not a good look, Ford.

I agree. At this point, the firewalls that seem to be in the way of letting me talk to someone are huge. I have now sent certified mail to several executive offices with no response, and now the Office Of General Counsel which they should receive in the next day or two. I held off on posting anything because I didn't want to get in the way of a solution. Unfortunately, I feel that now I had no other choice.

I will be interested to see if the Ford employee on here responds or reaches out.

 

[thorndike]

I agree with the 'consensus' that there is a sensor or sensor processing error, and nothing ever really got that hot, for obvious reasons. Because of the erroneous temp data, the charging throttles back under the command of the BECM.

Here's one issue that may be at the bottom of Ford's reticence to resolve it in my opinion

The temp sensors are all over the battery pack/modules and they are inside them!

So, Ford would be looking at replacing all the modules if they can't find the one with the bad sensor.

Ford doesn't repair modules at dealerships as far as I can tell, and opening up the modules to replace bad sensors is not something the dealership techs can do either I suspect.

So if they can't figure out which sensor is bad, and whether it is in the battery or in the cooling loop elsewhere, then they are looking at replacing the whole 9 battery modules and maybe all the other temp sensors.

There should be a way to find a bad temp sensor, or narrow it down to a particular part of the cooling system, but could Ford not have ever encountered this type of failure before or anticipated it?

If so that is surprising...FDRS ought to have a way to find a bad temp sensor!

Hopefully the Ford techs have realized like we have that this is a bad sensor - maybe they are hoping it is the sensor monitoring software/firmware? That would be a less costly fix.

This is clearly a battery warranty issue and eventually, Ford will have to honor their warranty.

That they are taking their time should be disturbing to all of us, and to any future customers of Ford.

Even without lemon law coverage, there are things a lawyer might be able to do if Ford doesn't come through.

I have talked to a lawyer friend who has given me some advice. He also pointed out that while I have what I consider a strong case, a judge might not due to contract language and then I would be liable for FORDs legal expenses. That is a road I can't afford to go down at this point.

 

[thorndike]

The only thing we can be sure of is that those reported temps were never hit. if they were they wouldn't be any truck left, never mind the battery. OP, I hope you get your truck fixed, but let's dispense with the notion that those temps actually happened. It demonstrably did not as you still have a truck. So much of what is on your website, candidly, is bullshit. You're trying to get a new truck, and while Ford hasn't showered themselves in glory here, you're posting stuff you know can't possibly be accurate.

There is a difference between what I 'expect' is inaccurate and what FORDs sensors show. I am not an FSE, so I can only post and display what their systems tell me. Nothing in my website, or reports is assumed. EVERYTHING is documented. Whether 419 is correct or not, is not my call, it is what FORD's software reported.

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