CHARGING IN THE WINTER

[RickLightning]

Completed the weekly charging of my Lightning just now, 45% to 90% took about 3.6 hours.
Emporia log shows 70.27 kWh for all of today's activities, conditioning battery, cabin and charging.
The FCSP log shows 69.995 kWh and ~$27.30 cost.

Interesting the discrepancy between the FCSP log and Emporia. I think it shows that Emporia isn't exactly accurate, measuring with the clip on connectors.

69.995/70.27 = .996

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[P-38]

Interesting the discrepancy between the FCSP log and Emporia. I think it shows that Emporia isn't exactly accurate, measuring with the clip on connectors.

69.995/70.27 = .996

I think the Emporia is accurate. Probably capturing power loss due to voltage drop losses between the Emporia connection point and the FCSP.

ASSuming Taxman's setup pulled exactly 80 amps and that it was 4awg wire...his charger is about 5 foot of wire away from his emporia. Please note exactly 80 amps is a large assumption and I have ignored termination points.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Yes, the drop in the retained heat curve within the traction battery will be of interest. I have a SWAG estimate but I'll hold my fire to see how far off my SWAG will be. Thanks for doing this.

This morning at ~07:30 am, just before departure time start began, about 36 hours of cold soak.
The LVB SOC dropped 10%, 10 amps outflow for lights and running modules, the ambient and outdoors temps is a data error which will correct with another unlock command.

The truck started warming up around 07:33 am, the PTC (coolant heater) is drawing 8.47 KW, interior temp is 35.6°, most traction temperatures are still chilly, note that I'm unplugged so we should not see the HVB temps go up. The LVB is recharging at 13.25v

HVB thermal mode remains off as expected.

Tuesday 12/9 I will pull data for the anticipated 11° cold soak.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I think the Emporia is accurate. Probably capturing power loss due to voltage drop losses between the Emporia connection point and the FCSP.

ASSuming Taxman's setup pulled exactly 80 amps and that it was 4awg wire...his charger is about 5 foot of wire away from his emporia. Please note exactly 80 amps is a large assumption and I have ignored termination points.

I have never seen 80 amps in real time, mostly I will see 75 to 77 amps measured by Emporia.

The wire length from the load center in the motorcycle shop to the EVSE in the truck/car garage is about 24 feet, wire size is copper appropriate for 100 amp breaker with continuous max load of 80 amps.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Interesting the discrepancy between the FCSP log and Emporia. I think it shows that Emporia isn't exactly accurate, measuring with the clip on connectors.

69.995/70.27 = .996

This sample was out of the norm, usually the Emporia measures a few more watts than the FCSP.

Here is a list of recent charging sessions showing the random variation.

The 12/06 entries are the departure timed warming of the battery and cabin first then the end of week charging session.

 

[TaxmanHog]

December 8th about 5PM when I parked the truck in the garage for the night these were the conditions, note that it had been sitting outside in the driveway for about 90 minutes since the last drive. Exterior temp is 26.6°, the HVB is still holding some of the mornings battery prep warming at 32-35.6°, the coolant temp is 181.4 from the move to the garage.

The departure times main switch was turned off in the Sync screen, and 'Home' charging parameters was changed from 90% to 50% SOC to prevent charging while plugged in, I wanted to eliminate any heat generated from either activity.

Dec 9th at 06:35 am, the temperature outside is 14° but the truck is reporting the garage temp is around 23° per car scanner data, as you see the temp's in various systems have chilled overnight, but the HVB is showing slightly warmer!!

The Lightning decided it needed a little dose of energy to warm the battery at 11:56 PM the warming cycle ran until 00:09 AM, total run time ~13 minutes, using 1.61 kWh of energy, the PTC ramped up to around 8KW energy draw.

The FCSP measured 1.61 kWh of energy

The tests I did last year, showed spontaneous warming cycle lasting similar time frames, I don't recall it repeating more than once over night, but folks living in ]brutally cold areas may observe longer and more frequent cycles.

 

[PJnc284]

did you happen to get readings on what the temps were after?

 

[TaxmanHog]

did you happen to get readings on what the temps were after?

I wasn't awake at the time to sample the pack temp's immediately after the warming cycle completed, it's hard to predict when this activity will occur, in the past it's happened at various times, I could pull an all night Emporia watch to see what the values are when the next severe cold night comes around. Next opportunity is Monday the 15th, with another 11 degree morning.

 

[TaxmanHog]

After today's activities & travels local short trips, I parked in the garage and plugged in to see if the spontaneous battery conditioning would repeat tonight, surprised to see that it kicked off immediately, during prior parking/shutdown's I got the popup reminder to keep the truck plugged in due to cold conditions.

As soon as I plugged in at 2:14 pm the energy flow started and the circulator was humming as usual during a warming cycle.

Ford app showed that the truck was preparing the cabin & battery.

Emporia confirmed energy flow, see the logs from 2:14 to 2:25

After getting settled in the house I looked at Car Scanner, monitoring the start & end of session temperatures.
start of process-------------------------LVB charging------------------------end of process

I configured a notification for my Emporia app on the phone to alert me if the truck starts drawing more than 3 KW of energy in the middle of the night, no need for a wide-eyed-watch.

FCSP energy log for the day & Emporia

 

[TaxmanHog]

My tests have the battery being warmed to 60f when a charge cycle is initiated.

As I plug in during the evening I find this frustrating, quite a bit of energy is lost warming the battery at 8pm, just to have a cold battery at 8am to drive 20min to work and have the truck sit outside all day till I plug in again. Never do I get any benifit from the warm battery and just end up spending money to throw a few BTUs into the garage.

Are you stuck with a constrained TOU window?
If not, try shifting the charging period closer to drive time.

 

[Maxx]

After today's activities & travels local short trips, I parked in the garage and plugged in to see if the spontaneous battery conditioning would repeat tonight, surprised to see that it kicked off immediately, during prior parking/shutdown's I got the popup reminder to keep the truck plugged in due to cold conditions.

As soon as I plugged in at 2:14 pm the energy flow started and the circulator was humming as usual during a warming cycle.

Ford app showed that the truck was preparing the cabin & battery.

Emporia confirmed energy flow, see the logs from 2:14 to 2:25

After getting settled in the house I looked at Car Scanner, monitoring the start & end of session temperatures.
start of process-------------------------LVB charging------------------------end of process

I configured a notification for my Emporia app on the phone to alert me if the truck starts drawing more than 3 KW of energy in the middle of the night, no need for a wide-eyed-watch.

FCSP energy log for the day & Emporia

I didn’t get to check the car scanner to see what the battery temp was before instantaneous heating of the HVB and after. But emporia said, it kicked in once last night for 1.9 kWh. we had around -15F` bellow zero last night. When we had a few degrees bellow zero, it didn't kick in.

By the way, as far as plumbing of the truck, do you know where the sensors for “Engine coolant temp“ and “ HVB coolant Inlet” located in? Trying to see what I should expect to see for them in different conditions.

 

[PJnc284]

Not sure where the engine coolant sensor is but that thing warms up quick and is always significantly higher than the others

 

[TaxmanHog]

By the way, as far as plumbing of the truck, do you know where the sensors for “Engine coolant temp“ and “ HVB coolant Inlet” located in? Trying to see what I should expect to see for them in different conditions.

Not sure where the engine coolant sensor is but that thing warms up quick and is always significantly higher than the others

I looked at my unofficial (dated) service manual, no pictorial diagram of where it's located, suspect it's down stream of the PTC or the near the diverter valve.

 

[Maxx]

No, can charge at any time.

In the end though regardless of when it charges I have no use for the heat in the battery. If it helps or protects the battery i can see it, but otherwise I just wish it kept the battery cold and charged it up.

Probably another thing that would be nice to have more manual control over

It is true that using the battery (taking power) when it is below zero is not as bad as charging at that temp (which cause lithium plating and permanent damage). But it is good to remember when you drive away your truck cold, every time you hit the brake, you are charging it. And with most brakes, especially when it is in sport mode you are fast charging it. So heating the battery before leaving has two benefits; 1 you protect it from permanent damage. 2 - you get more miles out of stored energy (you get some of the power you put in to heat it back).

 

[RickLightning]

below, brake, brakes...

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