Home solar pricing and options?

[broncoaz]

After placing my Lightning order I found myself looking at home solar and power wall options. It appears that the net cost at the end is reasonable, but I’m not certain if the potential incentives shown are “real” or just a remote possibility. Anyone here used Tesla for this or can recommend better options? I can pay the out of pocket costs for the system, but I do want to get the difference back in a tax year cycle if possible.

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[DadBald]

Holy crap that's a lot of incentives. I'm in MI and all I'm eligible for is the federal tax credit which is 26% of system cost thru the end of this year.

Payback is going to depend HIGHLY on incentives, utility rates, and your usage profile. For me, despite a $0.195/kWh utility rate (average), buying a DIY kit for half the price of a turn-key system, and the federal incentives, it's still around a 10-12 year payback. A single Tesla Powerwall wouldn't pay back before it would be EOL for me.

A 14.4kW system with 2 Powerwalls for $11k seems like an absolute steal to me; but again, paybacks are going to also depend on your utility rate structure and your usage profile.

Tesla is a respectable installer, just be sure you understand the purchase/lease agreement. I would only recommend total ownership of the system - NO power purchase agreements or the like.

 

[Viper GTS]

Can second the avoid PPA advice. If you live in a state with heavy incentives (which it appears you do) then buying is by far the better choice.

I purchased a house with a Vivint (now SunRun) PPA in place on it. I was lined up to rip it off and replace it with a much larger purchased system but discovered at the last minute that despite being quoted a buyout price that buyout did not actually mean I could remove it from my roof. I have to wait until the SREC value has been depleted before I can remove it.

I don't exactly regret having the system as it allows me to run time-of-use billing without worrying too much about my peak load, but I definitely did not understand when I assumed it that I could not write them a check for some amount (even an exploitive amount) and make it go away on my schedule.

So, now I have a calendar reminder for July 6th of this year title 'Vivint Freedom Day,' and have started the process of quote refresh from the installer I plan to use.

 

[d2blake]

I sell solar in MA. Best state for incentives, especially with batteries. Note that in MA if you go over 20kWh of battery storage, there can be additional fire protection required depending on the local department. This can add significant costs (separate battery room with sprinklers and 5/8 drywall or bollards in a garage for example).

Tesla will have the best pricing. Production won't be as good as other options due to equipment used and customization of layout can be difficult. Overall process can be painful but you may get lucky. I just had a lady call yesterday who gave up on Tesla after 6 months of trying to deal with them.

The Lightning likely won't work off grid with the Tesla Powerwall. It's possible it will with Enphase IQ8'S but it is too early to know the details of the systems working together. The lightning has 10x the battery capacity of 1 Powerwall. My recommendation is do solar only, then set up a dedicated loads panel to plug the lightning into. Sunrun's HIS system will be costly with not much more benefit.


Incentives Summary:
-Federal tax credit: 26%
-State tax credit: $1,000
-Connected Solutions: This is for having a battery. It gives the utility access to draw stored electricity during demand surges when the grid is stable. This saves them from capital expense of building natural gas peaker plants. Pays roughly $750/year for a 5 year term ($3500-4,000 total as shown in quote). This could be extended beyond 5 years.
-SMART Solar: Performance based per kWh incentive for having solar. This program is starting to reach capacity limits in certain areas. The earlier you sign up, the better as they reduce the amount paid to new customers as capacity gets used.
-SMART Storage: Performance based per kWh incentive for having a batter (paid base don solar production).

 

[d2blake]

Incentives Summary:
-Federal tax credit: 26%
-State tax credit: $1,000
-Connected Solutions: This is for having a battery. It gives the utility access to draw stored electricity during demand surges when the grid is stable. This saves them from capital expense of building natural gas peaker plants. Pays roughly $750/year for a 5 year term ($3500-4,000 total as shown in quote). This could be extended beyond 5 years.
-SMART Solar: Performance based per kWh incentive for having solar. This program is starting to reach capacity limits in certain areas. The earlier you sign up, the better as they reduce the amount paid to new customers as capacity gets used.
-SMART Storage: Performance based per kWh incentive for having a batter (paid base don solar production).

Should also note that SMART program is paid over a 10 year period. This means you pay $32k or $50k up front. Then next tax season, you get 26% back plus $1,000 state rebate. Then over the next 10 years you get paid the incentives. It's not like you only pay $11k upfront. That is your Net Cost after 10 years.

 

[Sam James]

Whoa, that's amazing. Here in MO we get the federal credit and that's it. Amazingly backwards state.

 

[F150ROD]

Yes I have Tesla Solar and the Powerwall. It’s great and reduces the cost overall. If you are planning on doing this make sure you calculate how much you will need to charge your Lightning on a daily basis. That way you get the right amount of panels.

 

[broncoaz]

Thanks to all for the response and insight. I don’t plan on selling this house in the near future, so investing in a purchased system sounds fine to me. Since the difference is significantly more money up front I would probably go with the smaller system and a single 13.5kWh power wall. Heating in the house is natural gas, so our electricity usage is pretty low. I am considering adding mini splits for summer cooling rather than the 6 window AC units that are used sparingly. The house is 21 years old, so I’d want to replace the roof before proceeding with solar install.

I did the math on the power wall vs the 98kWh battery in the truck, it makes the Pro SR truck a great deal compared to power walls. Initially I’m not concerned with using the truck as the backup battery, but it would be good enough for me not to want a backup generator.

 

[Technoman]

Carefully look at what you require from your batteries and how you will use them. I built a ground array with 40 panels and I produce more power than I use every year. I added 2 powerwalls to the mix last year. Tesla will control with the gateway how many amps you can draw at any given time. I'm all electric with a 200 amp service. Two powerwalls allowed me to use a 100 amp load center. I had to forego my workshop my hot tub and my electric dryer. I will add 2 more powerwalls if I choose to go off grid. Tesla communication generally sucks and I wasn't made aware of the restrictions until the day of the install. Max from the walls is 10KW. Do your homework and plan accordingly.
Cheers,Scott

 

[greenne]

I have solar in upstate NY(Albany area). The incentives for solar here are really good with a 26% Federal credit, a 30% state income tax credit, and 100% net metering for at least 20yrs.

Below are my opinions as a solar customer who did a LOT of research and comparisons. I initially did a 5.85KWh system in Fall of 2019 and then added on to that system with a 2.84KWh system in Spring of 2021. Overall I have been very pleased and in my situation the payback will be on the order of 8yrs taking into account all the incentives. As always YMMV, but I live in a fairly cloudy area with snow cover in winter. My house is OK for solar with little shade and in a ESE-WNW orientation.

I would shop around to see if you can find a reputable local installer that can meet or beat Tesla's price. They are doing better than in the past, but they have merely an average consumer rating 3/5. (The incentives should be available no matter what installer you choose).

I found when I priced out the system the prices varied wildly for the same sized system. My reputable local installer beat the big guys by 30% on price.

If you ever have to get service-- having a responsive local installer is worth it. I had a inverter shut off go bad and it was easy to get someone out to troubleshoot and repair. (It was under warranty also).

My opinion is if your home is situated for solar and you plan to stay more than 10yrs... buying solar outright is a no brainer. After your ~10year payback(or less) you'll get free energy for another 15-20yrs!!

Tesla Energy solar reviews, complaints, address & solar panels cost

 

[greenne]

I open this up to the group..what is the appeal of a powerwall?

Is it to go off grid or as a backup for outages? If your doing net metering and "selling" back to the grid a whole home generator may be a much cheaper alternative if you have natural gas and the power doesn't go out that often.

 

[Tenetke]

Net metering isn’t offered where I live so I have a battery system. My payments to the utility company will be zero. The excess I send back to the utility is paid back to me at a fuel rate of .03 per kwh. That’ll cover my interconnect fee the utility charges for being connected to the grid. I waited years for Tesla but they still don’t install in my area so I use Enphase IQ batteries. I got solar to power my home and to charge two electric vehicles, the first being a Lightning.

 

[Viper GTS]

I open this up to the group..what is the appeal of a powerwall?

Is it to go off grid or as a backup for outages? If your doing net metering and "selling" back to the grid a whole home generator may be a much cheaper alternative if you have natural gas and the power doesn't go out that often.

Home backup without noise has a lot of value. You can also use it to load shift, which is helpful for time of use metering situations.

As a side note, while the purchase price of gas generators isn't terrible (eg 24kw air-cooled Generac around $6,120 MSRP today) the install costs can be extraordinary. I was quoted $14,000 ($6k generator + $8k install costs) by an electrician and that did not include the plumber costs to run a high volume gas line to the generator location.

Ultimately I want a system that combines all of the above - Rooftop PV, fixed battery, vehicle-to-home, and generator power all managed intelligently.

We're just now getting to the point where there are management devices/software capable of doing this kind of setup.

 

[fitek]

We're building/adding on to a small old home later this year in western Washington. Anyone know if that federal rebate will expire at the end of the year or...?

I haven't gotten to thinking about PV much. Still early for all those details... waiting on a survey to be completed next week. I'm converting the home to electric despite it having gas service; picking up all the pieces as things go on sale (just got a heat pump water heater for half off). Electricity is 10.3 cents per kWh here, so relatively inexpensive.

We also own our prior home in central WA that gets quite a bit more sun. There's no gas service in that area and I figured we'd eventually install PV.

We're in our 40s and our incomes are good right now and interest rates are low, so I'm game for investing in anything sensible to reduce our costs later.

 

[fitek]

Answering my own question.

• 2016 – 2019: The tax credit remains at 30 percent of the cost of the system.
• 2020-2022: Owners of new residential and commercial solar can deduct 26 percent of the cost of the system from their taxes.
• 2023: Owners of new residential and commercial solar can deduct 22 percent of the cost of the system from their taxes.
• 2024: Owners of new commercial solar energy systems can deduct 10 percent of the cost of the system from their taxes. There is no federal credit for residential solar energy systems.

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