How fair is it, really, to be upset at Ford?

[astricklin]

Boo hoo hoo I can't buy a $75k truck to show off to my neighbors

Sponsored

 

[jfried]

Can’t brag about “200K reservations in just a few months” if you make it non refundable or charge $2K. Both of which they should have done, you’re absolutely correct here. But getting the press attention was more important to them.

Sorry -- not seeing any objective reason why they "should have" taken $2k or "more firm" deposits. The reservation exercise was always intended as a means to gauge interest, gauge overall trim level preferences, locations, etc. They were very clear that the $100 was not you placing an order for a vehicle.

For the $100 (a very minimal commitment), the reservation holders will get preferential treatment relative to the non-reservation holders when it comes time to actually placing orders for these trucks.

 

[LightningShow]

I was told by my dealership in the fall (including the sales manager) that given my reservation spot, that I was virtually certain to get a 2022. My reservation confirmation said it was for a 2022. They had over 730 reservations and then ended up only getting 6 MY2022. They were completely caught off guard by this.

I think that is poor management and communication by Ford. But we can disagree

Are you sure it's not your dealer? Ford didn't need to tell them how many allocations they were going to have in order for them to figure out that they weren't going to get very many. We all knew that there weren't likely to be more than 15k-20k 2022 trucks from almost the very beginning. With over 2000 EV dealers...the math isn't all that difficult to figure out about how many allocations each dealer would get. They shouldn't have been caught off guard regardless of what Ford did, or didn't, tell them.

Have you ever had a car dealer tell you bad news before they had absolutely no choice? They are the ones who benefit from keeping you on the hook...then they can blame Ford when it doesn't come through. I would bet good money that they knew what was coming.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

Sorry -- not seeing any objective reason why they "should have" taken $2k or "more firm" deposits. The reservation exercise was always intended as a means to gauge interest, gauge overall trim level preferences, locations, etc. They were very clear that the $100 was not you placing an order for a vehicle.

For the $100 (a very minimal commitment), the reservation holders will get preferential treatment relative to the non-reservation holders when it comes time to actually placing orders for these trucks.

Incorrect. Nobody from Ford stated at the reveal, or since, that the reservation process was merely market research. This is just you making up an excuse after the fact, which you’re of course entitled to. If the process was for research purposes only, there would’ve been zero reason to assign time stamps and somewhat sequential reservation numbers, right?
I think Ford was simply unprepared for the enthusiastic reception for this truck, and has been scrambling to adjust ever since. Not that that’s a bad problem to have! Some of this could have been avoided, hence my earlier suggestions.

 

[rdr854]

Below is the relevant part of the terms and conditions for the reservations:


If you object to any of the Terms, your sole recourse is to stop using the Program.

1. Reservation.
   You may be able to configure a Ford vehicle (the “Vehicle”) through the Reservation Process (“Reservation”). By completing the Reservation Process, you are not ordering or purchasing a vehicle. The Reservation Process allows you to configure a Vehicle and pay the Reservation Deposit (“Reservation Deposit”) to an authorized Ford or Lincoln dealer (collectively “Dealer”) you select. Participation in the Program does not guarantee you vehicle delivery. You must contact a Dealer to discuss final transaction pricing, arrange any necessary financing, and complete your purchase of the Vehicle. Your Reservation does not guarantee a set price for the Vehicle. The Dealer sets the Vehicle price, which may differ from the MSRP. Unless otherwise indicated, MSRP is the manufacturer suggested retail price and does not include destination/delivery fee plus government fees and taxes, any finance charges, any dealer processing charge, any electronic filing charge, and any emission testing charge. Optional equipment not included.

Scanning through the rest of the terms and conditions, I did not see anything related to the meaning of time stamps or a commitment from Ford to use time stamps. Unfortunately, I think that we all assumed that it would go that way and wanted first come, first served. And, while Ford’s internal documents to dealers stated that the time stamp would be used, it was not the be all and end all as there were other factors that would be considered.

As an aside, while I was able to make my reservations, I was never able to make a configuration as part of my reservation. Finally, it is important to note that the reservation was fir an opportunity to configure and order a vehicle. Ford made it clear that the agreement was between the customer and the selected dealer and not with Ford. Thus, it would appear that Ford was only acting as a conduit - which makes sense due to dealer franchise laws.

 

[jfried]

Incorrect. Nobody from Ford stated at the reveal, or since, that the reservation process was merely market research. This is just you making up an excuse after the fact, which you’re of course entitled to. If the process was for research purposes only, there would’ve been zero reason to assign time stamps and somewhat sequential reservation numbers, right?
I think Ford was simply unprepared for the enthusiastic reception for this truck, and has been scrambling to adjust ever since. Not that that’s a bad problem to have! Some of this could have been avoided, hence my earlier suggestions.

They were very clear -- it was a reservation process much like the Broncos was -- not a "vehicle order" or anything constituting an agreement to buy/sell. They used it to build a list of people to sell them to, not to sell the cars at that time.

With respect to timestamps, that is something that has been always been internal to Ford and its dealers / an invention of these boards by people looking at the time they got their email. The reservations were dated to customers, but not timestamped. As for reservation numbers, most systems generate IDs sequentially.... doesn't mean the number means anything other than being unique.

You selected a dealer at the time of placing that order, and that dealer of course had the freedom to chose whether to simply go by timestamp, or wanted to prioritize certain customers.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

They were very clear -- it was a reservation process much like the Broncos was -- not a "vehicle order" or anything constituting an agreement to buy/sell. They used it to build a list of people to sell them to, not to sell the cars at that time.

With respect to timestamps, that is something that has been always been internal to Ford and its dealers / an invention of these boards by people looking at the time they got their email. The reservations were dated to customers, but not timestamped. As for reservation numbers, most systems generate IDs sequentially.... doesn't mean the number means anything other than being unique.

You selected a dealer at the time of placing that order, and that dealer of course had the freedom to chose whether to simply go by timestamp, or wanted to prioritize certain customers.

You’re starting to struggle a bit in your blind defense of Ford’s blunders. But hey, keep up the good work.

 

[Royalist]

Me watching the fighting on this thread…

 

[Nick Gerteis]

Me watching the fighting on this thread…

Hey, I invented that outfit! Pretty snazzy, right?

 

[Regular150]

I've participated in 3 of Ford's 4 New Reservation systems (skipped Maverick). Our Mach-E experience was a wild ride, pun intended. The MachE forum I joined shared similar frustrations. You had the highs and lows of getting to order or not, then the orders sitting in South America over quality inspections etc;. Bronco was the same thing, except the reservation system evolved and was different than the Mach. I had a First Edition with the painted hard top reserved. If you know anything about the Bronco, ended up nobody got a painted hardtop unless you wanted to not order and wait a year when that top would be available; maybe. Again, high and lows of first year model and production limitations. Very similar to what the 22 Lightning is going through here.

The one piece of advice I'd give you is you have to be flexible, if not you're going to continue to continue to get angry, sad, mad or any of the emotions that come with our own expectations not being met. The 22 Lightning is coming out when the 22 model year is half over. So with Ford telling us in May 21 that they were aiming for 40,000 trucks annually, that leaves just 20k as we'be only got half a production year left.

Ford would love to sell all 11,000 members in this forum a vehicle two if they could. They are doing the best they can and if you decide to keep your reservation they are glad to have us. When invited to convert to an order you can decide then. If you feel the process is so bad and you're better served cancelling your reservation, you should. It's not worth your trouble. The one thing I am sure of is the situation will absolutely be fluid throughout the Lightnings fielding. The other thing I can assure you of, if we don't get an early Order, we will absolutely have more trims, options and colors if you wait.

 

[beatle]

There are a couple of reasonable assumptions that someone could make when placing a reservation that Ford did not follow through with:

1. An early reservation means an early order; it's like a place in line. Obviously dealer prioritization has thrown this out the window for some people. It is a problem Ford has with its dealer network - likely one that Ford wants to rectify by splitting the brand and resetting the playing field.

2. You can order what you want since Ford said all trims would be available at launch. Ford made a point on 5/19 that you could actually buy a Pro trim; they wouldn't simply sell the high margin trucks first. This is Ford's fault for not managing expectations up front by not stating these Pro trucks would be limited in numbers and may not be available to all. This is just a reasonable business decision made by burning the goodwill of those upset potential buyers. Ford just doesn't value that as highly as the loss they take on the low- or negative-margin truck sale. Maybe they're business smart for doing that, but it still sucks for the consumer to have what seemed like a pretty solid assumption taken away from them. There was only a $100 refundable deposit, but that still carries some weight.

 

[Fordskeptic]

Subaru launched their 2023 Solterra with a 3 week reservation window. Granted Subaru produces a fraction of the vehicles that Ford produces. I have no idea how many reservations Subaru received or whether Subaru will be able to convert a high percentage of these reservations to sales in the 2023 MY, but I think Subaru's approach was reasonable.

I am guessing that Subaru's stats were nothing to boast about compared to Ford or GM, and that Subaru's reservation window was somewhat calibrated with production capacity in mind. I am also guessing that Subaru has a good chance of producing whatever reservations are converted to orders within MY 2023. Perhaps GM and Ford should take note?

 

[VTbuckeye]

Subaru launched their 2023 Solterra with a 3 week reservation window. Granted Subaru produces a fraction of the vehicles that Ford produces. I have no idea how many reservations Subaru received or whether Subaru will be able to convert a high percentage of these reservations to sales in the 2023 MY, but I think Subaru's approach was reasonable.

I am guessing that Subaru's stats were nothing to boast about compared to Ford or GM, and that Subaru's reservation window was somewhat calibrated with production capacity in mind. I am also guessing that Subaru has a good chance of producing whatever reservations are converted to orders within MY 2023. Perhaps GM and Ford should take note?

Would a 7 minute reservation window have been acceptable? I exaggerate, but Subaru having a 3 week window for next model year production would have been equivalent to Ford closing reservations after the first night (under 24 hours). That would not have been acceptable.

 

[Mhubbardva1]

I don't understand the ADM restrictions. Right now if you find a Super duty on a lot anywhere is has a 10-15K ADM. If Ford is going limit ADM on EV why don't they limit ADM on all vehicles? Ford has become real bad about customer communications. Last year when many of us had F150's parked in the bone yard for 7 months or more I would watch new orders get processed, scheduled and delivered in 5-6 weeks. The same exact truck I had on order. BUT most or all of these trucks went directly to the dealer inventory so they could add serious ADM's . IMHO a payback for dealers having to deal with the chip shortage. This is all damage control on Ford's part.

 

[beatle]

Would a 7 minute reservation window have been acceptable? I exaggerate, but Subaru having a 3 week window for next model year production would have been equivalent to Ford closing reservations after the first night (under 24 hours). That would not have been acceptable.

I think Ford did the right thing by leaving the reservation system open as long as they did. I think they should have also been more forthcoming with what that reservation meant (and did not mean) with regards to someone being able to buy a truck of their choosing.

I don't understand the ADM restrictions. ... This is all damage control on Ford's part.

Exactly. Ford is doing what they can to mitigate the crappy buying experience people have with a dealer, and they are using EVs and the ICE/EV division as a catalyst to drive that wedge between legacy dealers who want a quick buck and customers who want to haggle, and those that wouldn't mind shrinking their role for more lower effort sales.

Sponsored