I need someone to help me respond to this if possible.

[GoodSam]

Very informative! Yeah, just removing grounds just seems to be where I draw the line. If it were a cheaper truck and cheaper house, or a workshop, I'd probably goof around with it, and get zapped.

Check your house maximum surge loads to not exceed the ProPower 30A/leg available power.
I would think, when the ground is removed between the house and the truck ProPower using a "dog-bone" (240 hots + neutral w/o ground) into the 14-50 receptacle, that if there was a fault from hot to neutral or hot to ground or between hotts on the circuit that feeds the 14-50 outlet to the truck, that either the truck would trip the ProPower or the house 50A breaker would see the high current and trip. Of course one has to be very responsible to disconnect the grid feed before ProPower is turned on! Use a checklist! Not that I would do this.

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[Jodokk]

Thanks! I learn new stuff every day on this feed.

 

[chl]

Very informative! Yeah, just removing grounds just seems to be where I draw the line. If it were a cheaper truck and cheaper house, or a workshop, I'd probably goof around with it, and get zapped.

Never a good idea to remove grounds under any circumstances, said an electrical engineer.

 

[Jodokk]

Yeah, I'm never gonna take that step.
Random find, but this is the SunRun schematic for the Ford Home Integration, V2H. (I've never heard a single good thing about it) It's interesting to see where the grounds follow, though.
Like I said, I'm learnin' a lot! You electric gurus may find it informative as well.

 

[tearitupsports]

I have a nearly identical installation, but with PointGuard instead of Franklin. Here are a few comments:

To solve my issue I removed the ground connection at the pin of the generator cable inlet box as that is easier than taking a cable apart. Therefore my entire house is grounded through the ground rod and is tied to the neutral in the main panel, which is maintained through the automatic transfer switch. The only items not tied in are the truck and the generator cord.

People here will tell me this is not code compliant, and are correct. There is no code that accounts for an un-changeable neutral bonded generator which itself is not actually grounded.

A neutral switching transfer switch is NOT at all a possible option, and should not be discussed in threads like this (as it just causes confusion). It is a completely separate system that is not compatible with modern hybrid battery inverter systems like PointGuard, Franklin, Sol-Ark, etc.

Furthermore I believe the neutral switching transfer switch to be dangerous in the particular situation of the truck pro-power. The truck is not really grounded. There is no tie to a rod 8 feet into the ground. You are now taking your whole house and un-grounding it completely. When using a neutral switching transfer switch, not only should the generator be bonded, but it should have its own local ground rod.

The neutral / ground bonding is designed to make fault current have a path to get back on to the circuit, so it can be completed and trip the fault protection device such as a fuse or breaker. As far as I can tell, this still happens in the case where where I disconnect the ground pin at the generator inlet. No matter which way it goes, there is a path back to the source on the neutral wire.

At the end of the day, this is a very rare circumstance of having the truck tied to the house anyway. The truck is extremely sensitive at self protection. I am going to take my chances on my set up with the ground pin removed at the inlet, as a safer and more logical alternate than any other possibility, and especially the neutral switching transfer switch on an un-grounded generator (the truck).

Here is a screenshot of my truck being used as the generator source, in conjunction with my whole home battery system. In this case the truck is powering the loads of the home, and charging the home battery with the rest. I set the rating in my app to request 5kW from the truck, and I can change this setting as I please. The screenshot says it is on-grid but it is not. The generator function is on a system relay that only closes when the transfer switch has already disconnected from the grid.

 

[Jodokk]

Well, now I'm totally confused.
Sugar Hollow Solar (they installed the system) is coming out Thursday, and I hope Franklinwh has given them a solid solution, because, damnit, people ARE successfully using this system with the truck, and in compliance with the regs... I guess.

I'll report back after they've had their chance.

 

[Jodokk]

Also, here's a shot of my Franklinwh app, with the EV doin nuthin. LOL!

 

[v2h8484]

Well, now I'm totally confused.
Sugar Hallow Solar (they installed the system) is coming out Thursday, and I hope Franklinwh has given them a solid solution, because, damnit, people ARE successfully using this system with the truck, and in compliance with the regs... I guess.

My bet is your guess is wrong. It's doubtful that Franklin has a built-in solution for this issue. Frankly, I would be surprised if you can find an electrician that even knows much about the issue with respect to code and has hands-on experience with bonded generators that can't be unbonded. Probably only electricians that deal with commercial/industrial mobile generators would know this issue well.

Since you don't like disconnecting the ground then you may want to consider using an isolation transformer with a ground rod on the side that connects to the truck. It's less energy efficient and more costly but should be code compliant.

 

[Jodokk]

You and Uncle A.I. agree about several things here. The isolation transfer is intriguing, but I agree about the drawbacks...
You are probably right about Franklinwh, and maybe why I can't get a response to my ticket.
Here's what the sky brain said:

Do these seem to be the only feasible fully code-worthy solutions?

 

[Jodokk]

The last word from ChatGPT...

"There’s a reason you’re seeing a lot of semi-hacks out there. The Ford Lightning's 240V Pro Power was never designed to interface with whole-home battery inverter systems as a traditional generator. But with care, Voltage Sense + isolation transformer or manual AC coupling can make this work safely and effectively.

Would you like a sample wiring diagram for the transformer approach or AC coupling setup?"

It makes sense. This thing was supposed to be V2H through the EV charging cable, not attached to the generator module. Maybe we'll see some development this year, but with the serious headwinds ahead for solar EVs and batteries, I doubt it.

 

[Jodokk]

Also... I mean, also... can't we just add a
a local ground rod at the generator inlet to try to mitigate the disconnected ground at the cord/box juncture?? Or, would that double-up the ground even more, and continue the Goofy to a new level?

 

[hturnerfamily]

It's great to hear from a Lightning owner. I have seen that set up!
It would seem perfectly safe given both entities are grounded no matter what.
The method does make me pause, just because of insurance and warranty issues, but damned if I wouldn't do it during another shit show like we had with Helene, up here.
Thanks

notes: "Insurance" or "warranty" have nothing to do with this.
-There is no 'you wired something incorrectly' Claim Rejection within the insurance world.
-There is also no 'you wired something incorrectly' Warranty Rejection within the auto manufacturer world.
These type of things are, unfortunately, made-up fears some folks may have...

all of us are simply trying to use a system that is, unfortunately, not well designed, or wired, for the 'typical' electrical generator input situation, which are, well, for very RARE and TEMPORARY needs. Don't sweat it.

 

[v2h8484]

Also... I mean, also... can't we just add a
a local ground rod at the generator inlet to try to mitigate the disconnected ground at the cord/box juncture??

No, the truck needs to be connected directly to a separate ground rod. There are many code rules for grounding systems and your AHJ may have additional rules.

 

[Jodokk]

Lemme tell ya, if that would solve this problem and get the power flowing, I'd pound a ground rod in next to the truck, attach the wire to the frame and call it a day.
The electrician from the Solar company is coming on Thursday. I'll keep you guys in the loop.

 

[tearitupsports]

The electrician from the Solar company is coming on Thursday. I'll keep you guys in the loop.

So what is the verdict?

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