Level 1/110 charging issue

[ackvor]

Hi there, I’m trying to figure out if I have a level 1 charging issue. According to the car scanner app, I only added 0.45 kWh in 8+ hours. This seems to happen at multiple 110v outlets. The app says 1.2kWh for a rate while charging and even lists a bit more power added, but not much. I have not tried another charger, but I also am not getting any faults on mine. Level 2 and DC charging is fine. I attached a couple photos from car scanner of before and after charging.

Sponsored

 

[fhteagle]

Your coolant heater is shown as 1kW. As it gets colder L1 may not be able to supply enough energy to both keep the battery warm and provide much additional energy to get into the pack....

 

[Maquis]

Your coolant heater is shown as 1kW. As it gets colder L1 may not be able to supply enough energy to both keep the battery warm and provide much additional energy to get into the pack....

^^ This!

 

[ackvor]

Your coolant heater is shown as 1kW. As it gets colder L1 may not be able to supply enough energy to both keep the battery warm and provide much additional energy to get into the pack....

Thanks! That’s why I ask the experts. it was about 45-50 degrees. Will the level 1 charge net very little in those conditions?

 

[fhteagle]

Thanks! That’s why I ask the experts. it was about 45-50 degrees. Will the level 1 charge net very little in those conditions?

~120V @ ~12A (aka a 15A NEMA 5-15 "wall socket" derated by 20% for continuous load) is ~1.4kW. If 1kW of that is consumed with heating, then there's only ~0.4kW net to charge with. So yeah, not even a mile per hour. It would help if the battery was already warm from a drive (keeping it heated when it's already warm is easier than re-heating after a cold soak).

50F is not a bad temp, and honestly a C/100 charging rate shouldn't need it that warm. But maybe Ford missed on that programming a bit....

I'm not familiar with the Ford onboard charger well enough to know if it'll go higher than 12A on 120V. If so, upping the amps available via hardwiring would help, but as you said L2 works. So go 240V when you can.

Winter is coming.

 

[Maquis]

~120V @ ~12A (aka a 15A NEMA 5-15 "wall socket" derated by 20% for continuous load) is ~1.4kW. If 1kW of that is consumed with heating, then there's only ~0.4kW net to charge with. So yeah, not even a mile per hour. It would help if the battery was already warm from a drive (keeping it heated when it's already warm is easier than re-heating after a cold soak).

50F is not a bad temp, and honestly a C/100 charging rate shouldn't need it that warm. But maybe Ford missed on that programming a bit....

I'm not familiar with the Ford onboard charger well enough to know if it'll go higher than 12A on 120V. If so, upping the amps available via hardwiring would help, but as you said L2 works. So go 240V when you can.

Winter is coming.

Ford limits L1 charging to 12A.

 

[Heliian]

If you turn the truck off you'll get about 1% per hour.

As far as I know, the truck only charges using 110v, it does not condition the battery.

It only charges at 1.2kw max on 110v

 

[ackvor]

If you turn the truck off you'll get about 1% per hour.

As far as I know, the truck only charges using 110v, it does not condition the battery.

It only charges at 1.2kw max on 110v

I’m definitely not getting 1% per hour!

 

[ackvor]

~120V @ ~12A (aka a 15A NEMA 5-15 "wall socket" derated by 20% for continuous load) is ~1.4kW. If 1kW of that is consumed with heating, then there's only ~0.4kW net to charge with. So yeah, not even a mile per hour. It would help if the battery was already warm from a drive (keeping it heated when it's already warm is easier than re-heating after a cold soak).

50F is not a bad temp, and honestly a C/100 charging rate shouldn't need it that warm. But maybe Ford missed on that programming a bit....

I'm not familiar with the Ford onboard charger well enough to know if it'll go higher than 12A on 120V. If so, upping the amps available via hardwiring would help, but as you said L2 works. So go 240V when you can.

Winter is coming.

Is the coolant/battery heater on when charging always in certain temperatures?

 

[chl]

First 1.2kW for 8 hours = 9.6kWh of energy.
450Wh added to the battery is less than 5% of the energy used.

9.150kWh for heating on L1?

No the L1 is not doing all the heating, some energy is coming from the battery to provide heating so the net effect is that a small amount of energy is added to the battery!

An of course there are some losses due to inefficiencies in the charging system end-to-end.

The 1kW power for heating would be 8kWh energy if on heating for 8 hours assuming no inefficiencies/losses. So L1 doesn't cut it, so to speak.
-----
If this were an L2 system, preconditioning can easily use that much energy. The 2024 Flash has a heat pump which should use less energy for heating and cooling the cabin, but how much less?

Even so, on L2 there would still be plenty added to the battery.

L1 does not efficiently heat the battery on its own, so some energy is actually being taken from the battery to keep it warm if on a L1 EVSE.

Hence the small net amount added to the battery
-----
My experience

I notice when the ambient temps get to the 40F's, and I have my truck plugged in to my FCSP, a L2 EVSE (240V 48A max), overnight for at least 8 hours, it uses some small amount of energy to keep the battery warmed, but it seems to be minimal.

When it gets into the 30F's the consumption is more noticeable.

One cold snap last January I had the truck plugged in for about 18hours and I noticed it used about 3kWh for heating (the total energy used was 7kWh and only 4kWh were added to the battery, ignoring the normal resistance etc. losses) according to the numbers I get from the FCSP via the FordPass app. With no heating or cooling going on as far as I can tell, the total used and added to battery numbers are much closer within 3% to 5% often depending on initial conditions.

I do not use preconditioning so the energy consumption is relatively low.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I'm not 100% clear about the 24+ trucks with heat pumps, I've read that they continue to have a PTC heater, but the strategy of its use has been changed to minimize it to only boost heat for the battery conditioning when the heat pump can't keep pace.

This understanding is from incidental posts & statements I've read over the past months.

I've also seen energy records from my Emporia & FCSP energy logs that indicate moderate (+32°) cold to sub freezing will trigger my 2022 Lightning to protect the battery spontaneously in addition to scheduled pre-conditioning while plugged into level-2 charging. I'll venture a guess the level-1 limited energy is barely able to keep pace at best a modest net gain over multiple hours being plugged in.

 

[Adventureboy]

Are you using L1 during the day just to top up, or is L1 your primary charging method? L1 as a primary charging method does not work for the Lightning in the winter. If you are just trying to top up while at work, keep it plugged in, and as you've seen, you won't get much other than a marginally warmer battery.

 

[ackvor]

Are you using L1 during the day just to top up, or is L1 your primary charging method? L1 as a primary charging method does not work for the Lightning in the winter. If you are just trying to top up while at work, keep it plugged in, and as you've seen, you won't get much other than a marginally warmer battery.

Yup. Exactly your last sentence. I use level 2 FCSP at home and Level 1 at work just because it’s there. Is it even worth it? Will it at least precondition before my departure in the afternoon?

 

[Adventureboy]

Yup. Exactly your last sentence. I use level 2 FCSP at home and Level 1 at work just because it’s there. Is it even worth it? Will it at least precondition before my departure in the afternoon?

I probably wouldn't bother. It probably isn't worth the effort in the winter unless you are tight on winter range to get home. It will probably burn a wee bit less energy on your trip home if the battery is a bit warmer and may result in a slightly lower energy requirement at home on your L2, but it's lots of effort to save a few $ per month.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

I have seen similar result to OP while camping - the electric site had two 120v 15A outlets, so we used one outlet to run an electric tent heater, and I plugged in the truck travel charger to the other outlet (why not?) but next morning the truck had only picked up something like 8kWh overnight.

Maybe not worth plugging in while your at work. I find taking out the travel charger and then putting it away again a bit of a PITA anyway.

Sponsored