Lower Range from Day 1

[RickLightning]

so 170 miles in the winter is a reasonable expectation after the first couple years of battery degradation for the SR trucks? this truck needs a heat pump ASAP.

OP, your battery is fine. you'll know for sure once you've driven through all the seasons. just keep in mind the first year will be the most range the truck will ever have. you'll see the most battery degradation in the first couple years of ownership. after that it should be negligible.

Who mentioned the word "degradation"?

Please cite a source that says any of us will see noticeable degradation in the first couple of years of ownership. I have never seen that stated, and believe it's false.

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[Kev12345]

Who mentioned the word "degradation"?

Please cite a source that says any of us will see noticeable degradation in the first couple of years of ownership. I have never seen that stated, and believe it's false.

what? talk to anyone that's owned an EV for more than a few years... the only way around it is if Ford built in a buffer and allows more use of the given battery over time. this would make battery degradation invisible to the user.

source. Most Tesla's lose 8-10% in the first few years including mine. google it.

 

[jimfigler]

Who mentioned the word "degradation"?

Please cite a source that says any of us will see noticeable degradation in the first couple of years of ownership. I have never seen that stated, and believe it's false.

Its false. There is no substantial drop in the first couple years and then a leveling off. There is a drop over long term of course. ICE vehicles dont hold their MPG over time either, but they never bring that shit up.

 

[RickLightning]

what? talk to anyone that's owned an EV for more than a few years... the only way around it is if Ford built in a buffer and allows more use of the given battery over time. this would make battery degradation invisible to the user.

source. Most Tesla's lose 8-10% in the first few years including mine. google it.

Sorry, but "talking to anyone" is not a source of valid measurement of battery degradation. There is no way for the average person to see battery degradation in the Mach-E or Lightning, it requires usage of an OBD adapter and software, and in fact there is belief that none of the measurable fields actually tell you that.

Ford's battery warranty is that at 8 years or 100,000 miles, you will retain 70% or more of battery capacity. They believe they will exceed that.

Assuming linear degradation, and assuming you hit 70%, in 8 years that would mean 3.75% of the battery is unusable each year. If it was 80% it would be 2.5% per year.

How would you know how much you lost? How does one notice a few % points in degradation? And, Ford has a small buffer, not a big buffer.

We drove a Fusion hybrid for 8 years. We drove a Fusion PHEV for 3 years. We didn't NOTICE any degradation.

 

[Kev12345]

Oh ok nevermind. Your EV battery won't lose any capacity as time goes by. Battery degredation doesn't exist. No tesla owners have noticed any measureable loss in range over time including myself.

 

[Zprime29]

Your initial claim was "in the first couple years", I don't think anyone is disputing degradation in the long term. At least that's how I'm interpreting this discussion. I did a quick search and found several articles, including this one:
https://insideevs.com/news/429818/tesla-model-s-x-battery-capacity-degradation/

Looks like distance traveled is the key factor for Tesla. Likely as it relates to number of charge cycles which is how battery life is normally reported.

 

[LightningShow]

That graph is definitely consistent with the degradation being steepest in the first couple of years. First year in particular.

 

[Zprime29]

I drive 15k miles per year, so if Ford's battery follows a similar curve I'm looking at ~90% or better after 5 years, 85%+ after 10. I'm 100% ok with that. Every used gas car I've owned showed similar loss in MPG.

 

[RickLightning]

what? talk to anyone that's owned an EV for more than a few years... the only way around it is if Ford built in a buffer and allows more use of the given battery over time. this would make battery degradation invisible to the user.

source. Most Tesla's lose 8-10% in the first few years including mine. google it.

So as I said yesterday, I prefer actual facts instead of what people say.

But today I was reading the Wall Street Journal, and Jay Leno was being asked about electric cars. This is an exact quote from that article:

Last year, I sold my old Tesla and bought a new one, the Tesla Plaid. That’s the latest version, and at least as of this date, it’s the fastest-accelerating car you could buy with the exception of the $2.5 million Rimac. If you’re looking for performance at a reasonable price, it’s a pretty good deal. My other Tesla was seven years old. I got $95,000 for it. It held its value. The battery dropped maybe 3% to 5%. As a first-generation Tesla, you got about 228 miles on a charge. When I sold it, it was 223, maybe. I never went to the Tesla shop for anything other than a flat tire.

As we know, Jay Leno knows nothing about cars...

 

[Toby57]

Now fellas, I have never had a ICE that went down in MPG. I have had F 150's that got 17 MPG new and still got 17 MPG with 160K miles. The one I have now got 21.5 new and still gets 21.5 with 87K. miles. Per year this one is doing better than it did last year.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

I'll take 90% at 200k miles. That's awesome.

 

[RickLightning]

Now fellas, I have never had a ICE that went down in MPG. I have had F 150's that got 17 MPG new and still got 17 MPG with 160K miles. The one I have now got 21.5 new and still gets 21.5 with 87K. miles. Per year this one is doing better than it did last year.

I'm going to make some statements, please don't take offense.

You absolutely have had F-150s that went down in mileage during the winter months. Between winter gas, and cold air, your MPG goes down. It is a fact, it can't be disputed. Whether your lack of noticing that it went down is due to you not resetting the different MPG screens, so the lifetime average MPG is what you're looking at, or, quite simply, a lack of awareness, I can't say.

There's a percentage of the population that when confronted with these facts says things like "I never heard of winter gas". That's unfortunate, but it exists in all 50 states.

This is what the EPA says:

Fuel Economy in Cold Weather

Cold weather and winter driving conditions can reduce your fuel economy significantly.

Fuel economy tests show that, in city driving, a conventional gasoline car's gas mileage is roughly 15% lower at 20°F than it would be at 77°F. It can drop as much as 24% for short (3- to 4-mile) trips.

The effect on hybrids is typically greater. Their fuel economy can drop about 30% to 34% under these conditions.

For electric vehicles (EVs), fuel economy can drop roughly 39% in mixed city and highway driving, and range can drop by 41%. About two-thirds of the extra energy consumed is used to heat the cabin.

Cold weather effects can vary by vehicle model. However, expect conventional gasoline vehicles to suffer a 10% to 20% fuel economy loss in city driving and a 15% to 33% loss on short trips.
For hybrids, fuel economy typically decreases by 20% to 40% in city driving and 25% to 45% on short trips.

When the cabin heater is not used, EV fuel economy is 8% lower at 20°F than at 75°F. Driving range is about 12% lower.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/coldweather.shtml

 

[Toby57]

I do not dispute winter MPG.
That is not what was being said. It was implied that all ICE went down in MPG over time or miles.
I have never seen that.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

I'm currently getting 190mi at 85%. Weather is low 30's. My GOM is still calibrating but this is as I expected.

 

[RickLightning]

I do not dispute winter MPG.
That is not what was being said. It was implied that all ICE went down in MPG over time or miles.
I have never seen that.

Ah. I see. Yes, I see that one person said that. I agree with your general statement, with the caveat that many vehicles do go down in MPG due to lack of proper maintenance. Otherwise, I agree with your statement.

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