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rolker

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Thanks for the links! Interesting reads. They seem to show up as images for me so here they are again:

https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electricity-why-neutral-burned-up/

https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electricity-pedestal-power-basics/

I guess the moral of the story is to bring a multimeter and verify volatges before using a campground pedestal?

Should a pedestal with the three kinds outlets have a supply that can handle 100 amps? Of course, "should" and what actually gets done can be very different things.

Anyway, I did test at home running the camper from the Pro Power while charging from a 14-50 outlet so that's an option. Of course, it's a bit simpler if I can just plug both in the pedestal.

I've read of people using the 14-50 240v to charge their Lightning & use the 30 amp 120v for the trailer. I think we run the danger of overloading the wiring at the pedestal doing so. I think the safest way would be use the 14-50 240v to the Lightning & run your trailer from the Lightnings Pro Power connection.
Two 120v 30 amps at one pedestal can cause you problems with charging & probably won't charge at all (because they are probably the same phase) & a danger to your trailer if you try to connect it as 240v using both 110v 30 amp connections. It has the potential of over current on the neutral wiring of your trailer & the incoming wiring. This articles link does a good job of explaining why.
View attachment 54094

This article explains basic camper pedestal wiring.
View attachment 54095

This diagram shows the normal wiring on a pedestal.
1660486933310.png

 

jerock

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Maybe it should handle 100 amps but was it wired with the intention that all connections would be used at the same time? I don't know that answer. My guess would be that it's wired with the intention of one of the connections being used at a time. Not more than one camper (or EV) being connected at that location.
That's similar to a 100 amp service on a house can have more than 100 amps of appliances hooked to it but normal use would never have that be the case.
I posted just to make people aware that some of the wiring at older locations may not be able to handle large current draws that we may be applying to them.
If we want to have a backlash of EV's charging at campsites, just melt down a few pedestals.
 

vandy1981

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I only noticed after I started charging that I could have tried to reach the 350 kW one, but I don't think it would have made a huge difference. Maybe heat was becoming an issue towards the end? It was warm out, but not as hot as it has been recently.
It's hard to tell whether it was the charger's fault or the truck's fault. I haven't heard anyone complaining of thermal issues with the Lightning, so it was probably the charger.

Do you have the Max Tow package?
 

LightningShow

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I only noticed after I started charging that I could have tried to reach the 350 kW one, but I don't think it would have made a huge difference. Maybe heat was becoming an issue towards the end? It was warm out, but not as hot as it has been recently.

I plugged into that exact 350kw charger in Manchester last week. For a couple of minutes it went to 155kW then it bricked and thermal limited to 35kW when i plugged it in again. I moved to a 150kW and got 130kW, similar to what you got. I was around 40% soc.

Moral of the story…not a huge difference between between the 150 and 350, at least at that station. I used a different 350 yesterday and it pulled 175kW right out of the gate. Also, yesterday i charged up to 86% on a 150kW station while i was shopping. It was still pulling 40kW at 86%, it looks like you saw a more drastic dropoff.
 

Griddlez

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I've read of people using the 14-50 240v to charge their Lightning & use the 30 amp 120v for the trailer. I think we run the danger of overloading the wiring at the pedestal doing so. I think the safest way would be use the 14-50 240v to the Lightning & run your trailer from the Lightnings Pro Power connection.
Two 120v 30 amps at one pedestal can cause you problems with charging & probably won't charge at all (because they are probably the same phase) & a danger to your trailer if you try to connect it as 240v using both 110v 30 amp connections. It has the potential of over current on the neutral wiring of your trailer & the incoming wiring. This articles link does a good job of explaining why.
https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electricity-why-neutral-burned-up/

This article explains basic camper pedestal wiring.
https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electricity-pedestal-power-basics/

This diagram shows the normal wiring on a pedestal.
1660486933310.png
Looking at this - I wonder if why I was alright in my last camping trip.. charging the truck off the 50amp and running the camper off the 30amp is because the Ford charger doesn't pull more than 30 anyway. I doubt I had my 30 amp, single a/c, camper maxing out the 30 amp plug either. interesting stuff.
 


Griddlez

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I've actually just received an ADJUSTABLE EVSE mobile charger that I plan to take with me, versus the Ford Mobile Charger - due to the fact that there are several scenarios when you don't necessarily want to be pulling close to/at 30amps at 240v when you have access to either a 30amp 240v outlet, or even what I mentioned before, the ability to draw from TWO 30amp 120v campground outlets at the same time. Dialing it down to 24amps might be a better option if the 30amps trips the breaker(s).
This post and your earlier one is what I have been thinking about as well. We don't want to overload the 30 amp 120v plugs and using the Ford one, assuming it would actually pull above 12amps/120vs off the single phase plug (I don't think so based on what I've been reading?) then we could be overloading the pedestal.

I went out and ordered one of these to test during the next trip: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09NPF2CL8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm hoping I can set it to 24AMP and it and the truck figure out how to pull at that and not just 12/15AMP 120v.

I'm also using one of these with it:
https://www.evseadapters.com/products/tt-30p-to-nema-14-50r-ev-adapter/
 
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jerock

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Looking at this - I wonder if why I was alright in my last camping trip.. charging the truck off the 50amp and running the camper off the 30amp is because the Ford charger doesn't pull more than 30 anyway. I doubt I had my 30 amp, single a/c, camper maxing out the 30 amp plug either. interesting stuff.
I was planning on using both plugs until I saw the wiring image how they are normally wired. The 110v 30 amp does not have a seperate wire run to it. That was my hope. When not running an air conditioner you might be alright using the Ford Mobile Charger and both circuits. In the summer running the AC, my concern would be if the wiring to the pedestal was only designed for the 240v 50 amp as the maximum curent for the wiring, you would be well above the 50 amp that circuit is designed for.
 
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ExCivilian

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Maybe adding a spoiler or defelcter to the truck could also improve overall airflow? Anyone have access to a wind tunnel big enough for the truck and trailer?
Adding a spoiler (https://www.airtab.ca), fairings (https://nacfe.org/technology/trailer-fairings/, https://www.energy.gov/eere/amo/freight-wing-aerodynamic-fairings), and testing in a wind tunnel should all provide meaningful increases.

To my knowledge, there is only one company that claims to conduct wind tunnel tests: https://bowlus.com. Not that it matters, their base model is $260K! They claim to have the world's first EV trailer...but it's ringing in at $310K.

They certainly have a storied past:

Hawley Bowlus® – Innovative Engineer
The Bowlus history stretches back almost 90 years, with fascinating origins as the creation of designer, engineer and aircraft builder Hawley Bowlus. Best known for his role in building the famed aircraft Spirit of St. Louis and training many of the first glider pilots in the world, Bowlus was determined to design and build a lightweight travel trailer that could transport flight crews to remote takeoff locations. As Bowlus began working on the prototype for what was to become the first aluminum travel trailer in the world.

...
https://bowlus.com/the-story-of-bowlus-the-ultimate-rv-luxury-travel-trailer/
 

GoGoGadgetTruck

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Months before I got the Lightning, I prepared by having an electrician install a few 14-50 outlets and oredering an OpenEVSE due to its open API and ability to adjust the current. The idea was that I could dabble with charging using only surplus solar.

The circuits were install with GFCI breakers and I am now having issues with them tripping. Using the OpenEVSE, I could charge at 40A for about half an hour before the breaker would trip. If I unplugged the charger and tried to reset the breaker, which would end up feeling hot, it would resent unless I let it cool off. I tried lowering the amperage of the charger but still had issues. The Ford portable charger did work most of the time, but occassionnally did trip the breaker.

Not sure if the issue was the charger or the breakers, but leaning towards it being a charger issue, I ordered a Wallbox charger which also has adjustable current via the app or an API. Breakers kept on tripping with the Wallbox on both circuits I put in the garage so I called in the electrician. The electrician blames the appliances, but he did order a replacement breaker for one of the circuits.

Of course, I'm now discovering that other are having issues with chargers on GFCI circuits so it's probably not faulty breakers or chargers, just an incompatible configuration. Seems like my only option to remain within code is to hardwire the charger so I don't need a GFCI breaker.
I use an OpenEVSE myself on both a Mach-E and my Lightning and no issues on a non-GFCI circuit on up to 48A on a 60A line.

There's an on-board GFCI so it's not needed on the circuit, and there have been a bunch of posts on the Mach-E sites suggesting that back-to-back GFCI is very problematic for reliability. (I am not an electrician, so just passing along what I have read).
 

hturnerfamily

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as an RVr for many years and having traveled all the 48 cont. states, most all Canadian provinces, and ALASKA... RV electrical is not always what we want it to be in every situation...having said that, I've never run into any RV Power Pedestal that is not wired for each outlet to be on it's OWN breaker set, and the total of the outlets to be able to be used all at the same time.
Of course, no one may really know what the downstream master breaker size is, which should be 80amps minimum, but more likely 100amp sub-panel, or a 100amp double-pole breaker within a larger 'main' breaker panel. Every campground and rv park is different, but I never assume that the pedestal can't handle what it's outlets are designed to provide. I have no reason to doubt it.

If I ask for too much power, a breaker trips. I then find my way back from that breaker to whatever device, or appliance, or combination of items might be the culprit. Most any RVr knows that 'managing' your electricity needs is paramount, even when your 50amp motorhome is plugged into a 50amp outlet. That's 50amps at 240v, or for most motorhomes, 100amps at 120v.

I am very comfortable with electricity, and do my own wiring. I dont' suspect everyone will do that, but basic electrical knowledge is a needed education for those who own an electric vehicle.
 


hturnerfamily

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I would suspect that any GFCI Breaker is going to present problems for your EVSE charger.
 

jerock

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I wired in a Progressive Industries Electrical Management system for my trailer. It analysis the circuit before it allows the electricity to flow to the trailer. It's a step up from a surge protector. I would recommend this to others that might be connecting to a sketchy looking installation. I also carry a multi meter to check the outlets.

Maybe over kill but after 28 years as a fireman & part of that time as Fire Marshal in charge of code enforcement & investigations of the fires origin, I've seen too many hacked installations on about anything you could imagine.

I had 2 years of electronics school but that is 50 years ago & I'll admit I do not know the common practice for camper pedestal wiring other than the links I posted in this thread. I'm sure others know more than I on this subject.

I'd be interested to hear from experienced electricians that have knowledge in this area.
 
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rolker

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It's hard to tell whether it was the charger's fault or the truck's fault. I haven't heard anyone complaining of thermal issues with the Lightning, so it was probably the charger.

Do you have the Max Tow package?
Yeah, I have the Max Tow package so it's probably not a heat issue. I'll keep better trick of the charging curve next time I fast charge.
 

TaxmanHog

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I left Epping, NH with 79% SOC, got on the hiway and set the cruise control to 65. When I got to the EA charger, the truck's "This Trip" display showed I had covered 26.3 miles at 0.8 mi/kWh and my remain range was only 55 miles! The charge display on the big screen showed my SOC to be 55%.
Maybe I'll see you around town when I am heading to/from the Drag Strip later this summer/fall!!

I did a truck only run from home to the track last week, averaged 2.2 to 2.4 miles/KW, I hope my trailer and race gear only cuts the rate to 1 to 1.2 miles/KW
 
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rolker

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Yeah, that Bowlus is a bit out of reach. I do like the idea of having batteries and propulsion in the trailer like Airstream is demoing with the eStream Concept. https://www.airstream.com/air-lab/concepts/estream/

Adding a spoiler (https://www.airtab.ca), fairings (https://nacfe.org/technology/trailer-fairings/, https://www.energy.gov/eere/amo/freight-wing-aerodynamic-fairings), and testing in a wind tunnel should all provide meaningful increases.

To my knowledge, there is only one company that claims to conduct wind tunnel tests: https://bowlus.com. Not that it matters, their base model is $260K! They claim to have the world's first EV trailer...but it's ringing in at $310K.

They certainly have a storied past:

Hawley Bowlus® – Innovative Engineer
The Bowlus history stretches back almost 90 years, with fascinating origins as the creation of designer, engineer and aircraft builder Hawley Bowlus. Best known for his role in building the famed aircraft Spirit of St. Louis and training many of the first glider pilots in the world, Bowlus was determined to design and build a lightweight travel trailer that could transport flight crews to remote takeoff locations. As Bowlus began working on the prototype for what was to become the first aluminum travel trailer in the world.

...
https://bowlus.com/the-story-of-bowlus-the-ultimate-rv-luxury-travel-trailer/

 

 
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