Regeneration Question / Info + Apple Maps

[FloridaMan655321]

I was on Mount Mitchel and on the way down back to the cabin I noticed a few things that gave me extra questions and also wanted to provide info in case someone else wants to know.

On the way back I had 57%, but Apple Maps said I will have 60% when we get back to the cabin. I ignored it at first because I thought it just hadn't been updated yet. Well as I began going down the mountain I was gaining way more energy than I thought I would. I ended up getting up to 61% at one point. I saw the mi/kWh go up to 20.7, but mostly it was 15.5. I ended back at the cabin with 59%, but still, very close and good job of Apple Maps calculating the regeneration numbers. So this is my question/comments

Ford seems to jump from 12.x to 15.5 to 20.7 mi/kWh (pic of 15.5 below). There doesn't seem to be any middle ground between these numbers. Anyone have more info on this? Is there a max number where it stops being accurate and takes big jumps like this?

Anyone have info on the regeneration motor? I'm very impressed it was going to gain this amount. I always thought it was kind of almost a gimmick and added unnecessary complexity, but boy was I wrong. I'm still shocked I gained the amount I did. If anyone has been to Mount Mitchel you know it's not just a straight down drive, lots of ups and downs.

I want to again comment on what a good job Apple Maps has done with calculating how much the SOC would be. Even though overall with a long trip it is still a bit too conservative, I can see it's getting better.

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[mattbrac3]

This is super cool. Didn’t know about this feature. I get my lightning this week, it’s in transit, looking forward to it.

 

[K6CCC]

I have never been near the location you talked about, but yes, you definitely get battery charging back on the way down a hill. I somewhat regularly drive up to mountain top 2-way radio site and always pay attention to how much the battery percentage goes up on the way down.
Cool - isn't it?

 

[trev5150]

This is why inclines are a zero sum game in EV's. ICE, too, but people are still new to it and think too much and burn some toast. Energy is energy. It's conserved, neither created nor destroyed (for the most part - anyone wanna get out their CERN tarot cards?). The biggest problems we face vs. the GOM is winds and thermodynamics i.e. losses due to heat wasted in transferring power from the batteries to the motors and heating/cooling the battery pack to optimum.

 

[vvgogh]

The top left of the power/energy circle represents the power to the motors, 100% = 440 kW in four major segments for the 131 kWh extended range battery when you floor it. Each major segment is 110 kW. The bottom left represents the regeneration, two major segments = 220 kW max regeneration on that scale. Notably, that's a little more regen available than you can DC fast charge, but you don't regenerate at that max rate for long. Note that 1-pedal drive regen won't get you to the max regen - you need to feather the brake pedal for a little more.

Here's a report to/from Mt Blue Sky (14,154') starting/ending at 5,678'. The built-in nav estimates remain terrible over 2y later ignoring elevation change. Apple Maps is much better at taking elevation into account

 

[RSMLightning25]

The top left of the power/energy circle represents the power to the motors, 100% = 440 kW in four major segments for the 131 kWh extended range battery when you floor it. Each major segment is 110 kW. The bottom left represents the regeneration, two major segments = 220 kW max regeneration on that scale. Notably, that's a little more regen available than you can DC fast charge, but you don't regenerate at that max rate for long. Note that 1-pedal drive regen won't get you to the max regen - you need to feather the brake pedal for a little more.

Here's a report to/from Mt Blue Sky (14,154') starting/ending at 5,678'. The built-in nav estimates remain terrible over 2y later ignoring elevation change. Apple Maps is much better at taking elevation into account

Interesting information that you have shared. How did you come up with that? I figured that 440kw is equal to 590 hp and assume that's the 4 major segments. But the regen part, can the truck really regen at 220kw?

 

[Adventureboy]

Anyone have info on the regeneration motor?

The regeneration motors are the same as the traction motors. When decelerating or going down hills, the same motors use the kinetic energy of the truck to pump energy back into the batteries.

 

[Calvin H-C]

Anyone have info on the regeneration motor? I'm very impressed it was going to gain this amount.

It is amazing how much can be captured through regeneration.

So much so, there is currently testing underway in Australia for what they are calling the "gravity train" that is hauled by a battery locomotive they are hoping will NEVER need to be plugged in to charge.

The idea is that it is filled with iron ore at one altitude and hauls this load down to a port at sea level where it is unloaded. The heavy downhill trip is expected to generate enough charge for its battery to provide enough power for it to get back up when it is significantly lighter.

We'll have to see how this works out.

https://www.railway.supply/battery-locomotive-tested-in-australia-for-gravity-train-project/

 

[Zprime29]

I've gained 8% SOC in my ER coming down from the top of Mt Lemmon, roughly a 6,000ft drop in elevation over 25 miles. It's a neat trick that no ICE vehicle can pull off (putting energy back into the tank) plus way less wear on the physical brakes.

 

[Firn]

It is amazing how much can be captured through regeneration.

So much so, there is currently testing underway in Australia for what they are calling the "gravity train" that is hauled by a battery locomotive they are hoping will NEVER need to be plugged in to charge.

The idea is that it is filled with iron ore at one altitude and hauls this load down to a port at sea level where it is unloaded. The heavy downhill trip is expected to generate enough charge for its battery to provide enough power for it to get back up when it is significantly lighter.

We'll have to see how this works out.

https://www.railway.supply/battery-locomotive-tested-in-australia-for-gravity-train-project/

These are a very cool application of the technology. I cannot begin to imagine the fuel cost a regular train would have in this application.

 

[On the Road with Ralph]

I think it is jumping because of the limited data set. Your trip downhill was relatively short (it wasn’t hundreds of miles) and the efficiency display isn’t instantaneous - there are short intervals between recalculations. The left side of the IC display gives you instantaneous feedback on energy use (or its recapture via regen).

 

[FloridaMan655321]

I think it is jumping because of the limited data set. Your trip downhill was relatively short (it wasn’t hundreds of miles) and the efficiency display isn’t instantaneous - there are short intervals between recalculations. The left side of the IC display gives you instantaneous feedback on energy use (or its recapture via regen).

I kept seeing these jumps over 20 miles in. The picture was just the better one that I took

 

[On the Road with Ralph]

I kept seeing these jumps over 20 miles in. The picture was just the better one that I took

As a data set 20 miles is NOTHING. Again, as I wrote in my original response, come back when you have an example with 80 or 100 miles!!!

 

[F150Flash]

The top left of the power/energy circle represents the power to the motors, 100% = 440 kW in four major segments for the 131 kWh extended range battery when you floor it. Each major segment is 110 kW. The bottom left represents the regeneration, two major segments = 220 kW max regeneration on that scale. Notably, that's a little more regen available than you can DC fast charge, but you don't regenerate at that max rate for long. Note that 1-pedal drive regen won't get you to the max regen - you need to feather the brake pedal for a little more.

Here's a report to/from Mt Blue Sky (14,154') starting/ending at 5,678'. The built-in nav estimates remain terrible over 2y later ignoring elevation change. Apple Maps is much better at taking elevation into account

The comment that 1-pedal drive won’t get the most regen interests me. I use 1-pedal all the time. When I use it and come to a complete stop I get a message that I achieved 100% energy. However if I need to use some brake pedal the message always returns less than 100%. That would seem to conflict.

 

[RickLightning]

20.7 is the max that displays, even though it goes higher.

The comment that 1-pedal drive won’t get the most regen interests me. I use 1-pedal all the time. When I use it and come to a complete stop I get a message that I achieved 100% energy. However if I need to use some brake pedal the message always returns less than 100%. That would seem to conflict.

I never use 1-pedal, and frequently get 100%...

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