Repair Nightmare - Ford engineers taking incorrect SW approach

[jnthn98]

I've been driving EVs for a while. Love my Mach-E and now my new Lightning, but support from Ford is lacking to put it lightly. The community that we have here is even more helpful than the support that I am getting from the mothership. Ford engineers wants to fix a hardware issue with software updates. As an engineer myself, I get it....its cheaper, but at one point, you just got to attack the root of the problem when "fixes" are not fixing.

The problem is that the telecommunications (FordPass, OTA, etc) hasn't been working since day 1 (can't connect/times out). I finally brought it into the dealership to get it addressed along with the upper control arms recall. Got a call from the dealership after 4 days and said everything is fixed. I tested FordPass/connectivity immediately at pickup and it didn't work. Demonstrated the problem to service in person. Their helpful salespeople also jumped in to help, but they couldn't get FordPass to connect. It's not a phone issue as I've used FordPass app for 4 years with my Mach-E. My Lightning went straight back to service after I spent $50 on a Lyft to get to the dealership. The helpful people in this community, particularly Jesse, were able to check the logs and tells me that my Lightning is not able to connect to the Ford servers.

My Lightning ended up being at the dealership for a full month, during which there was a 2-week idle time span where the dealership tech was waiting for instructions from the Ford engineers to tell him what to do next. Ford's last instructions to dealership to tech was to reprogram the TCU (software "fix") and release the vehicle to customer if there are no more DTCs. When I went to pickup my Lightning, I tested the telecommunications immediately in person, and yes....you guessed it, it didn't work. Just because there are no DTCs from the TCU doesn't mean everything is working. This time, I had to pickup my Lightning despite it being not fixed. I almost used up my 10-day rental car allowance during the month which I tried to juggle with sharing my wife's car. They have also asked me to reinstall FordPass app, log off/on FordPass, remove vehicle from app, reset vehicle from center screen, etc. None of them worked....its not a software/config issue.

Now Ford wants me to bring the vehicle back, which I would love to, but I need to know that there is an efficient plan (I.e. we will change the gateway module next) instead of my truck sitting idle at the dealership most of the time. I also asked if I can get helped with a second rental vehicle (I had to pay upfront for the first rental that isn't reimbursed yet), but my BEV case manager said the vehicle has to be fully fixed before getting any possible reimbursement. I find this level of support troubling....incorrect troubleshooting approach with lots of idle time and lack of rental car support (which affects families who have to get to work and drive their kids around).

Sorry for the long rant. This is just troubling coming from an engineer's mind.

@Ford Motor Company, is this something that you can help with?

Sponsored

 

[jnthn98]

Strange as it seems, I had this very problem with mine I just bought in June, I had the app for my old truck which it doesn't support much more than giving recall updates, non connected truck, a 2013. Well when I got the Lightning, it wouldn't connect to save my life.

What I did to correct the issue was delete all vehicles from the app, then go into the phones settings, apps, locate the app, go into settings, storage, delete cache, then delete data, click yes to the warning, then uninstall the app, make certain you clear cache then data FIRST, then uninstall/reinstall.

I put the Lightning in and boom, it took off perfectly.

That's great news. I am glad that worked for you. I wish I can say the same for my vehicle, but my problem seems to be more complicated. I've tried full vehicle reset, pulled fuse, disconnect 12V battery, full app delete from phone, and nothing helped. So far, not even the dealership tech nor Ford engineers know how to fix it. Maybe I got a lemon.

 

[RLXXI]

That's great news. I am glad that worked for you. I wish I can say the same for my vehicle, but my problem seems to be more complicated. I've tried full vehicle reset, pulled fuse, disconnect 12V battery, full app delete from phone, and nothing helped. So far, not even the dealership tech nor Ford engineers know how to fix it. Maybe I got a lemon.

So after you purged the app you were able to re-add your mach e but not the truck?

 

[RocketGhost]

I had the same thing happen to my '18 F150. Fordpass wouldn't connect to the truck. The cellular modem (whatever the module is called) was bad and they replaced it and I was good to go. I don't know if they saw a specific code or how they determined the module was bad.

 

[Firn]

I have seen at least one, maybe a few more, reports of bad cellular modems. Not sure that helps you here thought.

Fundamentally, if the truck cannot reach the mothership, it cannot communicate. As the members here have shown the Ford side software can tell if it can communicate with the mothership. How that is not THE test as to if its working is beyond me.

 

[jnthn98]

I have seen at least one, maybe a few more, reports of bad cellular modems. Not sure that helps you here thought.

Fundamentally, if the truck cannot reach the mothership, it cannot communicate. As the members here have shown the Ford side software can tell if it can communicate with the mothership. How that is not THE test as to if its working is beyond me.

That puzzle me too. I've suggested to the dealership to replace the Gateway module as a guru here have pointed out. The dealership actually have been great to work with (no complains here), but their hands are tied. They have to get approval from Ford to be able to order a new module under warranty. All signs are pointing to a hardware issue so I don't know why the Ford engineers are so reluctant to replace hardware. Yes, it costs more, but I think this approach will end up costing more (eventual hardware replacement + extended rental car costs). Not to mention a frustrated customer who is/was a Ford EV fan.

 

[jnthn98]

So after you purged the app you were able to re-add your mach e but not the truck?

I traded in the Mach-E, but no problems with it previously. From the diagnostics/logs, the Ford servers cannot connect to the Lightning. So the problem is limited to the Lightning. Also, the "Connectivity" toggle switch in the Lightning center screen menu is stuck on enable. It cannot reset itself by toggling that button...it just won't toggle.

 

[Henry Ford]

That puzzle me too. I've suggested to the dealership to replace the Gateway module as a guru here have pointed out. The dealership actually have been great to work with (no complains here), but their hands are tied. They have to get approval from Ford to be able to order a new module under warranty. All signs are pointing to a hardware issue so I don't know why the Ford engineers are so reluctant to replace hardware. Yes, it costs more, but I think this approach will end up costing more (eventual hardware replacement + extended rental car costs). Not to mention a frustrated customer who is/was a Ford EV fan.

Ford's customer service is just poor. I hate to say it because I like Ford and own two Ford vehicles I really love.

I'm going through a similar issue. I have a battery issue which I researched on this website before going to the dealership. They tried fixing it their way - at Ford's direction - twice before finally doing the battery health test I asked for when I made the initial appointment. Sure enough it needs a battery module which means a fourth trip to the dealership.

My advice to those reading this in the future is to pin down your dealer on exactly how long they will need your vehicle and pick it up when they aren't working on it. It's absurd to have a customer car sitting around for more than a day or two.

 

[Etsquared]

Strange as it seems, I had this very problem with mine I just bought in June, I had the app for my old truck which it doesn't support much more than giving recall updates, non connected truck, a 2013. Well when I got the Lightning, it wouldn't connect to save my life.

What I did to correct the issue was delete all vehicles from the app, then go into the phones settings, apps, locate the app, go into settings, storage, delete cache, then delete data, click yes to the warning, then uninstall the app, make certain you clear cache then data FIRST, then uninstall/reinstall.

I put the Lightning in and boom, it took off perfectly.

Yep me too long time ago, frustrating as it seemed to “my” engineer mind it worked. The original post in this thread the “poster” needs to do exactly as u said, take off his engineer hat and accept this is simply true and quit trying to figure it out. Just

 

[TaxmanHog]

Ford has over 2800 service centers nationwide.

The engineering team supporting those field service centers has fewer headcount, how many I have no idea, so it would seem that they have liaisons filtering & triaging field support requests, the problem seems to be around the mid-level support.

IMHO, a shake-up ala ELON and his rant gutting the DCFC charging group is potentially called for, short of that drama, at least a stand down and top to bottom review of operations is sorely needed.

 

[RLXXI]

Yep me too long time ago, frustrating as it seemed to “my” engineer mind it worked. The original post in this thread the “poster” needs to do exactly as u said, take off his engineer hat and accept this is simply true and quit trying to figure it out. Just

Can lead a horse to water, can't make them drink it.

 

[Old Aviator]

Mine was in the shop for 3 weeks about 2 months after I purchased it as dealer demo with 800 miles on it. Ran fine but would not update. Ford and the dealer went back and forth decided it was com module and ordered one while they were still looking at it it seems someone thought to check address in the truck against the mothership. The numbers didn’t match!! corrected the error and its worked perfectly ever since. I’m sure if they had changed the module it would have also corrected it but sometimes it’s far more simple. I once was ready to trash a computer that wouldn’t boot after many hours/days of trouble shooting when I happend to take a flashlight an inspected a cable connection and found a pin that was bent over among many. Managed to straighten it (using the open end of ball point pin cartridge). Worked perfectly after that. So there is always a dilemma with the essentially computers on wheels, simply no easy answers but when all else having failed replace the part!

 

[Etsquared]

I once had a connector pin retract at altitude 38k+ on a Raytheon “AWACS” computer connector only because of the extreme cold. CND it seemed forever then on close “very close magnification” I was able to push-to-lock that singular pin. Cold retracted the pin, on the ground normal temps you never saw it and it checked out EVERY TIME, shake test, meter, relectometer, hell I was about to sledge hammer test the sod gone thing! That bird still flys the mission to this day. Air Force Pround

 

[DOCallah]

I've been driving EVs for a while. Love my Mach-E and now my new Lightning, but support from Ford is lacking to put it lightly. The community that we have here is even more helpful than the support that I am getting from the mothership. Ford engineers wants to fix a hardware issue with software updates. As an engineer myself, I get it....its cheaper, but at one point, you just got to attack the root of the problem when "fixes" are not fixing.

The problem is that the telecommunications (FordPass, OTA, etc) hasn't been working since day 1 (can't connect/times out). I finally brought it into the dealership to get it addressed along with the upper control arms recall. Got a call from the dealership after 4 days and said everything is fixed. I tested FordPass/connectivity immediately at pickup and it didn't work. Demonstrated the problem to service in person. Their helpful salespeople also jumped in to help, but they couldn't get FordPass to connect. It's not a phone issue as I've used FordPass app for 4 years with my Mach-E. My Lightning went straight back to service after I spent $50 on a Lyft to get to the dealership. The helpful people in this community, particularly Jesse, were able to check the logs and tells me that my Lightning is not able to connect to the Ford servers.

My Lightning ended up being at the dealership for a full month, during which there was a 2-week idle time span where the dealership tech was waiting for instructions from the Ford engineers to tell him what to do next. Ford's last instructions to dealership to tech was to reprogram the TCU (software "fix") and release the vehicle to customer if there are no more DTCs. When I went to pickup my Lightning, I tested the telecommunications immediately in person, and yes....you guessed it, it didn't work. Just because there are no DTCs from the TCU doesn't mean everything is working. This time, I had to pickup my Lightning despite it being not fixed. I almost used up my 10-day rental car allowance during the month which I tried to juggle with sharing my wife's car. They have also asked me to reinstall FordPass app, log off/on FordPass, remove vehicle from app, reset vehicle from center screen, etc. None of them worked....its not a software/config issue.

Now Ford wants me to bring the vehicle back, which I would love to, but I need to know that there is an efficient plan (I.e. we will change the gateway module next) instead of my truck sitting idle at the dealership most of the time. I also asked if I can get helped with a second rental vehicle (I had to pay upfront for the first rental that isn't reimbursed yet), but my BEV case manager said the vehicle has to be fully fixed before getting any possible reimbursement. I find this level of support troubling....incorrect troubleshooting approach with lots of idle time and lack of rental car support (which affects families who have to get to work and drive their kids around).

Sorry for the long rant. This is just troubling coming from an engineer's mind.

@Ford Motor Company, is this something that you can help with?

Sorry, to hear your frustrations. Does @Ford Motor Company reply or help? I have been to the dealer multiple times asking for software updates for my Lightning which they don’t seem to know how to do. Why is something so simple so hard for them?

 

[The Weatherman]

That puzzle me too. I've suggested to the dealership to replace the Gateway module as a guru here have pointed out. The dealership actually have been great to work with (no complains here), but their hands are tied. They have to get approval from Ford to be able to order a new module under warranty. All signs are pointing to a hardware issue so I don't know why the Ford engineers are so reluctant to replace hardware. Yes, it costs more, but I think this approach will end up costing more (eventual hardware replacement + extended rental car costs). Not to mention a frustrated customer who is/was a Ford EV fan.

Does it really cost them or their suppliers. Seems like they are ones that should lose.

Sponsored