Taking the Politics Out of EVs

[WilliamRobert]

Fear not, MAGA friends. How long until Musk gets Trump to advocate for EV’s? Musk is transactional and definitely not rigid in his political philosophy. Trump is not that rigid politically either.
And the Cybertruck is still fugly no matter who’s touting it.

Trying not to be political but if I failed, delete before reading.

Or, the government support for EV development will end and only Tesla will be left!

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[Tony Burgh]

The CAFE standards are forcing manufacturers to build and sell an increasing number of EVs and because of CAFE within ten years there will be very few new ICE vehicles offered for sale. Is that right? Anyone that thinks EVs are the natural evolution of transportation is naive.

Society as a whole has decided that the detrimental effects of ICEs must be stopped and has had the political will to pass laws to try to eliminate them. Is everyone going to be happy with these laws? No.

We are witnessing a revolution, not an evolution. This kind of change, even if necessary, is disruptive. Entire industries are being displaced.

Anyone that thinks this revolution will not be disruptive, again, is naive. So far most of the battles of this revolution have been fought mostly in boardrooms and in the halls of government. I hope that these struggles stay off the streets but I feel I’m being naive if I believe that will be the case.

The EV revolution is coming whether we want it or not. Other countries do not have our advantage in hydrocarbons. China is pressing the EV case and are dominating the industry. They are doing the same in solar panel silicon.

After spending a career in petrochemical companies that received their feedstock from refineries, I often wondered about burning hydrocarbons versus their use as chemicals and plastics. The volume skews towards fuels. That won't change in our lifetime.

BTW - the magic of fracking has radically increased China's probable (not proven) reserves of natural gas. But still they move towards solar & EV's.

 

[roddiaz1]

I should have leased and would have.

Can you please explain this a bit more. how does leasing vs. buying affect the credit?
Thanks!

 

[Rocket808]

Can you please explain this a bit more. how does leasing vs. buying affect the credit?
Thanks!

When you purchase, your AGI comes into effect. When you lease, it apparently does not

 

[FloridaMan655321]

Incentives and "forcing" are two different things.

Yes, and no. Government giving tax payer money towards what they think the population should move towards can end up being closer to forcing than you might think. Sure an incentive of $7500 seems innocent, but it distorts the economy. If electric vehicles are so great and are the future, then you wouldn't need an incentive like that. I didn't see any government incentives for flat screen 4K TV's. It happened organically. I know thats a horrible analogy, but it's really not. You want the free market to work out what is the best and drive prices down with efficiency.

 

[BabyDoc1012]

I think if there had not been such a massive push to call them green vehicles and eco-friendly and instead just sold it as another powertrain option like gas or diesel then there may be more acceptance. I get thrown back in my seat faster and chirp the tires easier than I do in my Mustang. It’s ridiculous how fast this truck is. It is hilarious my far left leaning dad absolutely hates EVs and I am just right of center. But for my daily driver, I’ll never go back to gas.

 

[Newton]

When we banned leaded gas, it wasn’t because the unleaded cars were superior. We face an even greater environmental crisis now - we *are* going to have to stop putting 4.6 metric tons of carbon into the atmosphere per vehicle if we want to have a world that humans can survive in the fairly near future. EVs are not the whole answer, but without EVs we stand no chance.

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

I researched the @#$@ out of EV's before I purchased my Lightning. (I had a 18 months) to do so! After 10,000 miles I feel vindicated as with one exception nothing has happened I did not anticipate. However that one thing is the reaction I get from casual friends who aren't familiar with my politics. I live in a predominantly conservative part of the country and when I tell casual friend I own an EV, they automatically assume I'm a liberal . I know this because of the silence I encounter. There is no follow up questions about my experience, no questions I why I made my choice. Most likely the subject is changed as if I just confessed to like Nazi's.

I spend an inordinate time explaining to friends/family debunking all the BS that conservative politicians and media keep putting out. The belief in climate change is the overarching issue, but our government has exasperated the problem with "green energy" subsidies. Eliminate them and let the people choose! I believe that over time people will see the simplicity, reduced maintenance, ower costs, and a much better driving experience will win out.

I know exactly where you're coming from. I'll just say this, Im black, drive an EV, and I have a Trump sticker on my back window in southern California. Sometimes I feel like people look and go, huh.

 

[Monkey]

A lot of the politics around EVs comes from not reaching out to different audiences and speaking to what moves them. Basic sales 101.

If the only talking point is environmentalism, then it will only appeal to people that hold that as an important issue to them.

But if you bring things like independence from foreign energy, national security, power and performance, low maintenance, etc. ...you reach a whole different audience.

Nuclear energy suffers similar challenges.

I have a lot of friends and family who don’t understand EVs and they have bought into most or all of the negative political talking points. Most of them are thrown for a loop when I tell them I don’t buy or drive EVs for environmental reasons. The key points I lay out for them are the much lower maintenance and cheaper cost to drive. Of course, cost is somewhat of a hard sell because the cost of entry for EVs is higher for most people vs. comparable ICE vehicles and not everyone is in a situation where they can cheaply charge at home. But still, the efficiency and cheaper cost to drive and maintain are good focal points along with the focus on domestic/ American manufacturing and jobs. And then the performance. The more level-headed of my anti-EV friends and family have become quite curious and accepting. Many of them changing their tune after riding in the Teslas I’ve owned, or the Lightning. The Lightning has impressed many of my fellow “truck guys”.

 

[F150ROD]

Nobody is shoving anything down anyone's throats. In reality, were the government not involved in many things, people would not change behavior. Sometimes a change in behavior benefits the many.

Let's get rid of all the subsidies - farm, fuel, etc. Then let's see how the people who don't want subsidies react to the lack of subsidies.

Agreed. Im not sure where people get this "Government shoving them down our throat" narrative from.

California put in their 2035 mandate that all new cars sold must be EV's, that's the headline.

The reality is that includes PHEV. Last I checked PHEV's have gas engines in them. I mean an efficient gas car isn't a bad thing.

 

[John Becker]

Im not sure where people get this "Government shoving them down our throat" narrative from.

CAFE standards and mandates. Although the trend seems to be reversing or at least softening, world governments have been in the process of regulating ICE vehicles out of existence.

 

[F150ROD]

CAFE standards and mandates. Although the trend seems to be reversing or at least softening, world governments have been in the process of regulating ICE vehicles out of existence.

And they should as technology advances. Now if they completely ban the use of ICE, then I see an issue. I just got rid of my Model 3 for a Civic Type R, but see the Lightning in my garage for a long time.

 

[Firn]

If you just allow it to happen naturally then it wouldn't get political. While I took advantage of the $7500 gov rebate, I don't necessarily agree with it.

It's important to understand that the $7500 isn't a rebate to convince someone to "go green", it's primary purpose is to fund the manufacture for a product that is currently more expensive to manufacture.

Remember, traditional vehicles have had 100 years to build a global supply chain and to drive costs down within that supply chain. EVs have not had anywhere near that amount of time so their was not a global supply chain built, let alone one that competes amongst itself to drive down costs.

The issue is current players can drive out new competitors simply from time available to optimize. At its simplest the rebate is like giving a "small business" a leg up getting started when they compete against the like of Walmart and Amazon.

As for the EV mandates, that certainly is a different discussion.

Yes, and no. Government giving tax payer money towards what they think the population should move towards can end up being closer to forcing than you might think. Sure an incentive of $7500 seems innocent, but it distorts the economy. If electric vehicles are so great and are the future, then you wouldn't need an incentive like that. I didn't see any government incentives for flat screen 4K TV's. It happened organically. I know thats a horrible analogy, but it's really not. You want the free market to work out what is the best and drive prices down with efficiency.

But again, a competitive product but one that has not had decades of effort in driving cost down, doesn't compete. It's not that it cannot compete eventually, it's that it cannot enter the market and compete.

It does distort the economy, it allows competition..

Edit: not sure where that got dorked up and somehow added my previous response to the new one...

 

[VAF84]

I can relate with a lot of you being in oil and gas and getting questions about my truck. There's this weird defensiveness to them. Even though I'm a well known car enthusiast among coworkers, and they know it's not a purchase to burnish some kind of virtue signaling bonafides, and they know I tend to vote R. Today, I rolled in with my new Sierra EV for the first time, after trading out the F150 hybrid. It's like they didn't know what to say and immediately started bringing up something about EV sales. I told them I loved this truck and was going to keep it for a long time, so who cares.

And always with the battery replacement costs. I just shrug and tell them I have an 8 year battery warranty, so I'll figure it out when/if I get past that.

We're at the crossroads of where EV's are getting mainstream. Anti-EV'ers are recognizing people in their circles buying them, so the political argument is starting to go out the window, and now it's the defense mechanism about how they're no good and expensive.

BTW, kept my Oil and Gas license plates, got to keep people guessing

 

[Pod]

Just need EV technology to continue to evolve and prices drop. The market will solve this. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy EV’s, that is just silly. We do have people spewing all kinds of incorrect info for their own gain. Love my Lightning buy tell my friends, we live in the land of the free. Buy whatever you want.

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