What MSRP to use for the new tax credit?

[PV2EV]

Yes, that is the base for the trim (Platinum in you example), not the model (F150 Lightning). While this is the likely outcome of an IRS ruling, but some states use base model MSRP.

For myself, I just hope the D&D does not count, then I don't have to sweat the strike (delayed for now, but could push me to 2023 delivery), as my MSRP + options is $78,299, with D&D putting it $94 over $80k.

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[cvalue13]

For myself, I just hope the D&D does not count, then I don't have to sweat the strike (delayed for now, but could push me to 2023 delivery), as my MSRP + options is $78,299, with D&D putting it $94 over $80k.

D&D would be item (3) in the regs. Personally, I don’t see that at all being a reasonable interpretation of the components of “MSRP” - as it is not a retail price, but instead a shipping charge (which is why it’s broken into item(3))

similarly, item (2) seems pretty clearly not to be included as “MSRP” for the vehicle under the regs, as these amounts are instead “the retail delivered price suggested by the manufacturer for each accessory or item of optional equipment, physically attached to such automobile at the time of its delivery to such dealer, which is not included within the price of such automobile as stated pursuant to paragraph (1);”

Yes, that is the base for the trim (Platinum in you example), not the model (F150 Lightning). While this is the likely outcome of an IRS ruling, but some states use base model MSRP.

You’re suggesting a possibility where the tax credit $80,000 cap is relevant only to the cheapest variant made of a headline “model” range, and any higher “trim” levels also therefore qualify? What states do this? That seems shockingly unlikely to me but interested to learn.

I’m not even sure the distinction you’re making between “model” and “trim” is a real one, from the perspective of the IRS and the Monroney Sticker regs that are the basis of the “model” distinction. At the vehicle level (which is what the Monroney Sticker regs focus on, not the product line level), the relevant “model” seems to be the “F150 Lightning Lariat” vs the “F150 Lightning Platinum,” etc.

But, who knows!

 

[TaxmanHog]

States that charge sales tax, charge this tax based on the full price of the product including its extra features even if added at the delivering dealers location, think of it from this point of view.

 

[RickLightning]

It's pretty ridiculous that such a major piece of legislation didn't have an IRS statement ready that said "here's the number we will use".

 

[metroshot]

So until we hear from IRS, the safest is to order under $80K no matter what method the IRS will use ?

 

[TaxmanHog]

It's pretty ridiculous that such a major piece of legislation didn't have an IRS statement ready that said "here's the number we will use".

There is so much horse trading going on in smoke filled rooms in the middle of the night, they leave the policy analysts out of the loop until AFTER the deal is cut hence the need for future technical correction act's to come later, especially when they [CONGRESS] produce a major cluster-f of a bill in the first place, won't be the first time won't be the last.

 

[EvEddy]

What about y23 models that get delivered in 22? I think I will get mine in november and is the current tax credit limited to 80k?

 

[greenne]

There is so much horse trading going on in smoke filled rooms in the middle of the night, they leave the policy analysts out of the loop until AFTER the deal is cut hence the need for future technical correction act's to come later, especially when they [CONGRESS] produce a major cluster-f of a bill in the first place, won't be the first time won't be the last.

Its obvious no one who wrote the bill gave any thought into how(or if) it could be implemented. I could also argue that it was Manchin's plan all along--to make it so complex as to severely limit people's ability to utilize the credit. He was/is on the record as staunchly against EV credits(subsidies) and also known to take lots and lots of dollars from big oil.

I may have figured he couldn't stop the EV revolution, but he's going do everything he can to slow it down....

 

[Maquis]

What about y23 models that get delivered in 22? I think I will get mine in november and is the current tax credit limited to 80k?

Model year means nothing. As long as your truck is “placed in service” by year-end, you use the old rules. Except for the NA final assembly requirement, which the Lightning meets.

 

[cvalue13]

It's pretty ridiculous that such a major piece of legislation didn't have an IRS statement ready that said "here's the number we will use".

You’re yelling at clouds, brother!

This is how this legislation always works.

And it’s not on accident.

And here in particular, I think we’re wildly over-estimating our self-importance to the thrust of a 755pg bill that has almost nothing at all to do with EV incentives (relatively speaking).

There are maybe a few hundred, maybe couple thousand tops, of EV buyers in the unique position that:

(1) they’re presently looking to order an EV before 2023 but possibly not take delivery until after 1/1/2023

(2) and of those ordering now, they happen to be buying one of only a few vehicles that currently still qualify at all for any credit in 2022

(3) and of those few ordering now one of those few vehicles that still qualify in 2022, they’re interested in buying one of the few trims that are in a narrow (and rather expensive/privileged) pricing bandwidth that toggle in/out of thr $80K cap depending on MSRP interpretation

(4) and of those few folks now ordering one of those few qualifying 2022 vehicles within that narrow but expensive MSRP range, are …. materially worked up about it

Meanwhile, for the few manufacturers that DO still qualify in 2022, that was all very soon going away first partially then entirely for everyone by mid-2023ish, so whatever credits remain thereafter is upside to anyone ordering and qualifying for the next 10 years.

 

[EvEddy]

Model year means nothing. As long as your truck is “placed in service” by year-end, you use the old rules. Except for the NA final assembly requirement, which the Lightning meets.

Thanks but my question was.. does the 80k apply to current year or a new requirement? ill google but had trouble finding it.

 

[cvalue13]

Thanks but my question was.. does the 80k apply to current year or a new requirement? ill google but had trouble finding it.

80k cap applies to a vehicle put in service the day and after the IRS issues it’s guidance/interpretation, which is generally expected to be issued on the long stop date of 12/31/22 (but in theory could come out sooner)

Before that date, the only “new” rule in place is that the EV must be assembled in North America (the Lightning passes this req)

 

[EvEddy]

So sorry don't mean to derail and I know we aren't tax experts but what does credit mean? Ive had a couple ev's leases and the dealer took the credit off as part of deal. This time I have to apply for credit in April. Now it says its not a refund so if you owe 5k Youd only get 5k back? but what does owe mean? If I've paid $20k in tax over the year would I get a refund of 7.5k or do you have to adjust withholdings so you OWE money at filing time?

 

[metroshot]

So sorry don't mean to derail and I know we aren't tax experts but what does credit mean? Ive had a couple ev's leases and the dealer took the credit off as part of deal. This time I have to apply for credit in April. Now it says its not a refund so if you owe 5k Youd only get 5k back? but what does owe mean? If I've paid $20k in tax over the year would I get a refund of 7.5k or do you have to adjust withholdings so you OWE money at filing time?

There are many threads on the tax credit topic - please search.

As for the leases - the leasing company owns the vehicle and sometimes will kick back some or all of the tax credit to you. Some may not at all.
Ford leases do not kick back a dime to you.

However if you finance the vehicle then you (the owner) gets to apply for the tax credit (assuming you have tax liability for the year).

 

[EvEddy]

Ive spent hours searching and there actually isnt any mention of how refund/credit works. I would presume its just you need to owe over 7500 even if you prepaid it but I will search off site.

Thank you

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