• Welcome to F150Lightningforum.com everyone!

    If you're joining us from F150gen14.com, then you may already have an account here!

    If you were registered on F150gen14.com as of April 16, 2022 or earlier, then you can simply login here with the same username and password!

Sponsored

When do you plan to replace your high voltage battery?

MickeyAO

Well-known member
First Name
Mickey
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Threads
23
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
1,929
Location
San Antonio Tx
Vehicles
Rapid Red Lightning Lariat ER, Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD
Occupation
Lab Manager of the Energy Storage Technology Center
I think you're missing the point being made. @hturnerfamily gets asked when he's going to replace his EV battery, and his response to the gas vehicle owner is "when are you going to replace your engine?"

Replacing a motor on an EV should be planned for like replacing your front left fender. It shouldn't.
When people ask me about replacing the battery, I remind them of why powertrains are warrantied...Automatic transmissions were crap back in the day and no one would buy one. Manufacturers got better and started offering long warranties. The battery is not much different in that regard.
 
OP
OP

Texas Dan

Well-known member
First Name
Daniel
Joined
Jun 9, 2021
Threads
47
Messages
479
Reaction score
472
Location
Texas
Vehicles
'04 Envoy XL 4WD, '15 Fusion Energi, '19 Niro EV
Occupation
Engineer
I think you're missing the point being made. @hturnerfamily gets asked when he's going to replace his EV battery, and his response to the gas vehicle owner is "when are you going to replace your engine?"

Replacing a motor on an EV should be planned for like replacing your front left fender. It shouldn't.
Having worked with rotating equipment my whole life I know just how wrong you are but just to give you the benefit of the doubt let’s say you just fell off the turnip truck. A left front fender is not a moving part but a motor is. Just like any moving part on a vehicle, like ball joints, you know they are going to wear out.

Your comment does bring up an interesting question though, how will you know when the motor has gone bad. The obvious symptoms would be if the motor is screaming or if the vehicle just won’t move anymore but there must be tests you can perform to determine the health of motor. In the industry we do vibration tests and Meg’r tests to check the winding insulation of motors but I have never tried to check out an EV motor.

Have any of you old Tesla guys ever had to replace a motor and if so what were the symptoms that led to the motor replacement?
 
Last edited:

RickLightning

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Threads
73
Messages
4,337
Reaction score
5,619
Location
SE MI
Vehicles
'22 Lightning ER Lariat,'22 Mach-E Premium 4X
Having worked with rotating equipment my whole life I know just how wrong you are but just to give you the benefit of the doubt let’s say you just fell off the turnip truck. A left front fender is not a moving part but a motor is. Just like any moving part on a vehicle, like ball joints, you know they are going to wear out.

Your comment does bring up an interesting question though, how will you know when the motor has gone bad. The obvious symptoms would be if the motor is screaming or if the vehicle just won’t move anymore but there must be tests you can perform to determine the health of motor. In the industry we do Meg’r tests to check the winding insulation of motors but I have never tried to check out an EV motor.

Have any of you old Tesla guys ever had to replace a motor and if so what were the symptoms that led to the motor replacement?
You're clearly entitled to your opinions, and your planned replacement schedule. The reality is that most EV owners, i.e. nearly every one, will never have to replace motors, or batteries, except the 12v at some point. It's not something anyone needs to think of, unless they choose to.

A few years back I asked our Ford Service Manager how many batteries they had replaced on hybrids. He said 2, and both were under warranty.

Most people, if they don't read forums like this and/or don't obsess about measuring things with Car Scanner, have no clue that their battery is at 9X% SOH. They just drive, charge, and drive some more.
 

Zprime29

Well-known member
First Name
Brandon
Joined
Jul 26, 2022
Threads
32
Messages
1,529
Reaction score
1,531
Location
Tucson, AZ
Vehicles
Honda Pilot, 2022 Lightning ER
@Texas Dan I'm trying to search for references to verify your claims but I cannot find anything. Every single site I visit says 20+ years for expected lifespan of an EV motor. Could you please provide us a source to show otherwise?
 

Sponsored

RickLightning

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Threads
73
Messages
4,337
Reaction score
5,619
Location
SE MI
Vehicles
'22 Lightning ER Lariat,'22 Mach-E Premium 4X

jerock

Well-known member
First Name
Jerry
Joined
Apr 12, 2022
Threads
6
Messages
347
Reaction score
330
Location
Kansas
Vehicles
F150 Lightning
You're clearly entitled to your opinions, and your planned replacement schedule. The reality is that most EV owners, i.e. nearly every one, will never have to replace motors, or batteries, except the 12v at some point. It's not something anyone needs to think of, unless they choose to.

A few years back I asked our Ford Service Manager how many batteries they had replaced on hybrids. He said 2, and both were under warranty.

Most people, if they don't read forums like this and/or don't obsess about measuring things with Car Scanner, have no clue that their battery is at 9X% SOH. They just drive, charge, and drive some more.
I agree with most everything you’re saying. The only thing I would add is I had a Chevy Volt & over 7 years time replaced the 12 volt battery 3 times.
 

Sponsored

Maxx

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 15, 2021
Threads
37
Messages
1,717
Reaction score
1,948
Location
MD
Vehicles
23 Pro, Sky RL, Frontier, Aurora V8, Buicks, ....
I have some of the same concerns as you. The truck my Lightning replaced was 20 years old and still running great with original power-train when I sold it. I don't buy a new car every 2-3 years and am very interested in keeping this truck running as long as I can but I won't replace a module or the pack unless I have to.

I loved the Mercedes fake ad Rick posted. If there was a truck for which I could order an after marker battery module for and easily replace it, I would be all over it. The current state of battery replacement is a bit sad; with Ioniq5 battery replacement quoted more than a new car, with Tesla battery packs being replaced with a refurbished one for $15K and only 1 years warranty, with Tesla batteries all glued together, it makes many After warranty EVs as disposable as your phone.

The BMS that work with these batteries revolves around their chemistry and associated parameters. Once our batteries is out of warranty, there is a chance better ones are available. That brings up a bunch of questions:

  • Would you try replace a bad module with a solid state pack?
  • Will you be able to update the software to handle it?
  • Will you try to replace the entire pack? will there be software to handle that?
  • Will the new trucks with much faster charging capabilities, 1000 mile range that could swim and fly for short distances, make replacing your battery that much more difficult?
Apple learned early that you keeping your devices for a long time is not good for business and Ford is hiring guys from Apple. It will be interesting to see how long we can keep these things running after warranty.
 

Grease Lightning

Well-known member
First Name
Johnathan
Joined
Sep 6, 2023
Threads
1
Messages
348
Reaction score
493
Location
Albany, Oregon USA
Vehicles
2023 F-150 Lightning XLT
Having worked with rotating equipment my whole life I know just how wrong you are but just to give you the benefit of the doubt let’s say you just fell off the turnip truck. A left front fender is not a moving part but a motor is. Just like any moving part on a vehicle, like ball joints, you know they are going to wear out.

Your comment does bring up an interesting question though, how will you know when the motor has gone bad. The obvious symptoms would be if the motor is screaming or if the vehicle just won’t move anymore but there must be tests you can perform to determine the health of motor. In the industry we do vibration tests and Meg’r tests to check the winding insulation of motors but I have never tried to check out an EV motor.

Have any of you old Tesla guys ever had to replace a motor and if so what were the symptoms that led to the motor replacement?
I think you might be the one that fell off the turnip truck, most of us and most people don’t “plan” the demise of their truck. As we experience problems we would fix them.

So to Rick’s point, I don’t plan to replace my battery. I have a plan in when I will replace the truck. Those times may coincide, or I may elect to replace the battery before hand.

Check back in 8-10 years and I will let you know😉🤷‍♂️
 

Overlook637

New member
First Name
Wes
Joined
Jan 8, 2024
Threads
0
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
Location
Dekalb, Georgia
Vehicles
Clarity, M4, Yj, Ram Ecodiesel
I have some of the same concerns as you. The truck my Lightning replaced was 20 years old and still running great with original power-train when I sold it. I don't buy a new car every 2-3 years and am very interested in keeping this truck running as long as I can but I won't replace a module or the pack unless I have to.

I loved the Mercedes fake ad Rick posted. If there was a truck for which I could order an after marker battery module for and easily replace it, I would be all over it. The current state of battery replacement is a bit sad; with Ioniq5 battery replacement quoted more than a new car, with Tesla battery packs being replaced with a refurbished one for $15K and only 1 years warranty, with Tesla batteries all glued together, it makes many After warranty EVs as disposable as your phone.

The BMS that work with these batteries revolves around their chemistry and associated parameters. Once our batteries is out of warranty, there is a chance better ones are available. That brings up a bunch of questions:

  • Would you try replace a bad module with a solid state pack? Sure if it was a option
  • Will you be able to update the software to handle it? Ford typically isn't easy to aftermarket tune or reprogram. Would Ford care enough to update software on a 5 year old limited production vehicle?
  • Will you try to replace the entire pack? Depending on price, warranty, reliability. will there be software to handle that?
Apple learned early that you keeping your devices for a long time is not good for business and Ford is hiring guys from Apple. It will be interesting to see how long we can keep these things running after warranty.
Good points to consider. For high-production cars like Tesla or Leaf, I would assume that those models will have aftermarket support for battery pack repair and battery pack replacement. Ford has already said the Lighting will have a new version in 2025. So, we could have just three years of production on this generation. Not sure how many aftermarket companies would invest in or offer battery repair or replacements. Maybe just 50,000 of these components with just a small % needing replaced or repaired at any given time.

Best case scenario is the truck battery will last you 12 years and by then at least one battery rebuilding service will be offered. Perhaps even battery improvement options in 12 years.

I'd be more concerned with 20-year-old cooling lines. Munroe Live on facebook did a video on the cooling and airconditioning system. Looked like over 50 different unique hoses, and connectors. That cold require the bed or cab to be lifted up to replace those leaking items.
 

Grease Lightning

Well-known member
First Name
Johnathan
Joined
Sep 6, 2023
Threads
1
Messages
348
Reaction score
493
Location
Albany, Oregon USA
Vehicles
2023 F-150 Lightning XLT
Best case scenario is the truck battery will last you 12 years and by then at least one battery rebuilding service will be offered. Perhaps even battery improvement options in 12 years.
How is 12 years your best case scenario? The battery can out live 12 years. Its is not like it is has a birthday and dies. Yes it degrade as it ages too, but doesn’t just stop working.

I wish people would stop getting their tech info from Fox and Newsmax….😂🤣
 

ctuan13

Well-known member
First Name
Chuck
Joined
Jul 31, 2022
Threads
22
Messages
575
Reaction score
690
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Vehicles
1979 Continental, 2022 F150 Lightning, 03 Marauder
Well with the recent breakthroughs in solid state battery tech I've been reading about, I'm hopeful they should be on the market within 5-7 years instead of the 8-10 originally expected. Regardless, I probably wouldn't replace my battery pack until it dropped to at least 80% of original capacity. Obviously if it drops below 70% under warranty then I'd use the warranty.

But my hope is that we'll see aftermarket rebuilt packs like those available for Priuses, maybe with even higher capacity cells, so that all I've gotta do is drop the old pack and install the new one, a repair I'm more than capable of doing.
Sponsored

 


 


Top