Ram says the Ramcharger REEV is just right for the electrified age

[FloridaMan655321]

I'm not as negative with this news. If this design helps keep the Lightning going forward for another decade, that will be great. Then as people get used to driving a gas generator for their electric truck, they will realize how little they need it and then think 'huh, I really don't drive across the country that often, maybe I'll simplify things and trade this in for an all electric truck'

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[hturnerfamily]

there's certainly different use cases for all sorts of differing types of powertrains, drivetrains, battery or electric, PHEV or RREV... but the real question is NUMBERS. Are there ENOUGH numbers of buyers to make one or all or just some profitable. It HAS to be profitable.

The RAM RREV may be one of those thoughts that initially 'makes sense', if you are ONLY considering the potential for mileage MAXIMUMS without stopping, but is that actually the REALITY of what the public wants, or better yet, IS WILLING TO BUY. Many things are great, but pulling them off in a profit environment may never happen.

Think of the car that could float and drive in water, a lake, a pond, etc. Sounds like a 'good idea' if you ever want to drive into water, but, honestly, the idea really didn't 'float' with the public.

Think of the car that could attach to wings and became a 'plane'... makes a lot of sense to be able to fly to your destination... well, if you destination is an airport. And, only if your car and it's 'wings' are leaving from a long takeoff strip. Not practical for many reasons.

Many, many things go into releasing a new vehicle. Sometimes the public just can't get onboard.

My truck is fantastic, and does EXACTLY what I need and want it to do. For most others, though, it won't fly.

Their gas-engine vehicles work perfectly for them.
Just not for me.

 

[Altivec]

I don't get it. It gets much poor fuel economy than an Ice truck. So if you do a lot of long distance towing, you will wear out your battery fast and pay more for gas. If you don't do a lot of long distance towing and use it more as an EV, then you have a small battery, poor efficiency for hauling an unneeded engine and gas around, engine maintenance and no frunk. All that just to avoid a couple of extra charge stops a year.

I'm sure it will sell though. A lot of people want EV's but are scared to get one. Marketing will make people believe this is the best of Both worlds when in reality it's the worst of both worlds. This era will be a short run. New battery tech and fast charging speeds keep coming out. They should be concentrating on that.

 

[Heliian]

Marketing will make people believe this is the best of Both worlds when in reality it's the worst of both worlds.

Agree 100%. I will drive a Bev or an ice, the line is pretty clear now where one or the other will be optimal. I'm not a fan of regular hybrids either.

 

[richguy82]

the downside, well, compared to an EV, is:

A) GAS still comes into play - you'll need to be full when you leave, or plan to stop along the way, if needed... maybe a CCS/NACS Fast Charger is at the same station : )

B) You'll continue to need engine 'maintenance', although, maybe since this is more of a 'generator' than a combustion-propelling engine, you might find it much cheaper, from that perspective. I would imagine this 'generator' to run at a strict specific RPM, constantly, putting out 240v 30amp power.

C) It's not really a PHEV Hybrid, of sorts, it's more an EV with a backup onboard generator. While a true PHEV Hybrid requires all the legacy equipment of an Gas vehicle, such as muffler, transmission, etc., this generator-EV has only the engine to be concerned with, or in addition to the EV equipment, except for a GAS tank, although likely a LOT smaller.

D) You give up the front storage, although that's probably not a deal-breaker for anyone contemplating this type of power platform. The bed is certainly sufficient, just like it is now for any other gas or diesel truck.

You will HAVE to use the generator once you put fuel in it. Even if you don’t go on any long trips. Gas will go bad. Supposedly the new Scout (concept) will automatically start running the generator from time to time to ensure the fuel doesn’t go bad.

 

[Zprime29]

I don't get it. It gets much poor fuel economy than an Ice truck....

What makes you claim it will have less fuel economy? An engine running as a generator should be more efficient than one which is being used to propel the vehicle. At a minimum there will be gains in efficiency due to less energy loss from mechanical linkages and no idling time.

People keep saying the worst of both for maintenance, but in the same breath we tout how there is no maintenance for EV's. So I'm calling BS on that argument. From an ICE driver's standpoint, they aren't losing anything. They'll have the same maintenance (less actually, cuz they'll have regen braking), they gain better in city efficiency, and they don't lose their big oil safety blanket. It's a win-win from that perspective. We see it from the other side of the window, losing the frunk, additional maint, stinky gas, etc... I know at least 2 "truck guys" that are VERY interested in the Ramcharger.

If there where an EREV 3 row available, it would be in my garage. The bottom line is that infrastructure, will improving, is simply not there yet. Even ignoring current changes in our govt, we are 5-10 years before things will be in a state where we don't have to worry if a charger will be working/available. Until that time, most people are not willing to eat that inconvenience. EREV's are superior as a stop gap until that time. It get's people hooked on the EV driving experience. It continues to drive battery technology advancements. It gives people options, which is always a good thing.

All that said, will it be competitive price wise? That remains to be seen and will be the biggest con as I see it. I can't argue that one could probably buy an EV and an ICE to accomplish the same thing. But then there's double the insurance, double the tires (in AZ, the sun will kill tires before the tread gets worn down), double the car batteries, .... meh, I'd rater just have the EREV.

 

[22legit2quit]

Because it’s on the internet, that means it’s true?

 

[Danface]

This is how trains work, seems to make sense.

 

[Nikos]

Folks, after reading your posts, it seems that we all have our opinions and we agree that our Lightnings serves us very well in all our needs. I do like everyone’s point of view.
What I have found though in the past 3 years of ownership, is that we put our trucks thru our own testing regiment.
Once we got our trucks and started driving them, wishful thinking about the capabilities of our trucks thru advertising and claims, gave way to reality of the world we live in and not what was advertised and claimed.
The RAM EREV might claim all kind of things but the reality would be different as we all found out with our Lightnings.
To some folks all this will not change their minds. Convenience of using fossil fuels will make them run those trucks constantly on fuel. Some will not even install L2 charging at their homes. They will claim of being green but it will be just a facade. Another way to justify their purchase shortcomings and not understanding what they are getting into with these EREV trucks.
Of course all this come down to, it is someone else’s money and what they do with it is their choice how to spend them. Not mine and not yours.
We did our research, made our choice, we are comfortable with it. I love my truck. It does all the things I was expecting to do with my Lightning.
Let us see what the real world experience will have for these EREV trucks.

 

[Altivec]

What makes you claim it will have less fuel economy? An engine running as a generator should be more efficient than one which is being used to propel the vehicle. At a minimum there will be gains in efficiency due to less energy loss from mechanical linkages and no idling time.

People keep saying the worst of both for maintenance, but in the same breath we tout how there is no maintenance for EV's. So I'm calling BS on that argument. From an ICE driver's standpoint, they aren't losing anything. They'll have the same maintenance (less actually, cuz they'll have regen braking), they gain better in city efficiency, and they don't lose their big oil safety blanket. It's a win-win from that perspective. We see it from the other side of the window, losing the frunk, additional maint, stinky gas, etc... I know at least 2 "truck guys" that are VERY interested in the Ramcharger.

I saw a review of the Ram Charger from one of the invitees to the introduction or what ever that was. He stated that when running in "gas" mode the EPA is 20MPG. An Ecoboost F150 has an EPA of 22MPG. 10% better

He also said the battery has a 145 mile range but stops letting you use it as an EV when it reaches around 25%. So if you charge to 80% to prolong battery, you effectively have 55% capacity or 80 miles range on battery. Cut that in half for towing or cold weather and you have 40. This all assuming it lives up to the 145 mile range. He also said, you shouldn't DC fast charge it.

What I said was. There are usually 2 types of drivers. One that stays around home 95% of the time and one that does a lot of long distance driving.

If you are the stay around home type, yes, engine maintenance is a thing. I know, I have an EREV type plug in hybrid. You can't just use it as an EV. Gas in the tank gets stale and engine components dry up, oil settles, etc.. when you don't use the engine often. Would you rather deal with all that if you are in the camp that primarily drives around town just to avoid 1 or 2 charge stops the few times a year you do go long distances.

Then you have the long distance drivers. So you are getting worse fuel economy during most of your driving, you are stressing out a smaller batter that's constantly being charged (ie going through life cycles) and will be forced to change the expensive battery because the rest of the truck will still be decent when the battery dies. In other words a much greater cost of ownership and powertrain complexity over just getting an ICE truck.

You also lose the frunk. So what is the point of getting this? As I said, it will sell because of marketing and people want to believe it's the best of both worlds. I was one of these people. I have had many vehicles, ice, diesel, EREV, BEV. By far the EREV has been the most hastle, least reliable and problematic to fix. It's also the noisiest. There may be a use case that works but definitely not for me.

 

[gbuydos]

Ford is in the business to sell vehicles, as many as possible, to the broadest market. Unfortunately, EVs still have a stigma. Mostly around range, how fast to refill, and where can I find a charging station that works.

I have to take a extended drive last Saturday, 283 miles one way. There are no charging stations in the rural area I was going, so I rented an F150. Not everyone has the ability to rent a vehicle when needed. So this is the kind of stuff that worries the general consumer, they want assurances that whatever vehicle they buy will provided them what they need, perceived or real.

A comparison to the gas F150 vs the EV. The gasser was rougher, not as smooth and louder. It also was light in the ass end and broke traction all the time. But I did hit two gas stations, got filled up quick and continued on my way. Got everything done in the time frame I had available on Saturday.

 

[Maineiac12]

Good video explaining the details of the Ramcharger:

 

[daveross1212]

I think it totally makes sense. I would prefer a slightly smaller battery (~70kwh) to easily handle daily commute work but keep the weight down. And then on longer weekend trips, etc - you aren't worried about charging stops, waiting in line, etc - you just use gas.

In the future that equation will change, but for the next 5-10 years this helps EV adoption and provides a bridge for a lot of potential weekend warrior type users. IMO.

 

[Zprime29]

I saw a review of the Ram Charger from one of the invitees to the introduction or what ever that was. He stated that when running in "gas" mode the EPA is 20MPG. An Ecoboost F150 has an EPA of 22MPG. 10% better

He also said the battery has a 145 mile range but stops letting you use it as an EV when it reaches around 25%. So if you charge to 80% to prolong battery, you effectively have 55% capacity or 80 miles range on battery. Cut that in half for towing or cold weather and you have 40. This all assuming it lives up to the 145 mile range. He also said, you shouldn't DC fast charge it.

What I said was. There are usually 2 types of drivers. One that stays around home 95% of the time and one that does a lot of long distance driving.

If you are the stay around home type, yes, engine maintenance is a thing. I know, I have an EREV type plug in hybrid. You can't just use it as an EV. Gas in the tank gets stale and engine components dry up, oil settles, etc.. when you don't use the engine often. Would you rather deal with all that if you are in the camp that primarily drives around town just to avoid 1 or 2 charge stops the few times a year you do go long distances.

Then you have the long distance drivers. So you are getting worse fuel economy during most of your driving, you are stressing out a smaller batter that's constantly being charged (ie going through life cycles) and will be forced to change the expensive battery because the rest of the truck will still be decent when the battery dies. In other words a much greater cost of ownership and powertrain complexity over just getting an ICE truck.

You also lose the frunk. So what is the point of getting this? As I said, it will sell because of marketing and people want to believe it's the best of both worlds. I was one of these people. I have had many vehicles, ice, diesel, EREV, BEV. By far the EREV has been the most hastle, least reliable and problematic to fix. It's also the noisiest. There may be a use case that works but definitely not for me.

I hadn't seen an EPA rating yet, looking further it's mostly speculation at 20mpg. Although that fits for the claimed range - EV range. I'm surprised that's all they could muster from it, and slightly disappointed. My brother's diesel get's 25mpg on the highway.

That said, I think you are assuming worst case scenario. Most driver's will likely put the battery on "hold" or whatever Ram calls it, and primarily use the engine while on the freeway/towing. So no, EV range won't get cut. The point of the truck is to use the gas when it's more efficient/convenient and save the battery for everything else.

We do this with my wife's XC90. She uses the engine once a week to take kids to school, the rest is 100% battery. When we road trip, the battery gets placed on hold as soon as we hit the freeway. Plenty of battery left once we exit. We are getting 46 mpg equivalent when all modes of driving are combined. It's working perfectly for our use case.

I'm curious, what where the problematic fixes for your EREV? Which one was it? Is common/uncommon? For instance, I had a subaru, supposedly very reliable vehicles. Well mine left me stranded due to electrical problems about once a year. It wouldn't release the key from the ignition until I'd sat in the car for several minutes with it off. I'm glad to be rid of it. On the other hand, I had a Saturn Ion in 2012, loved that thing. Zero problems, I regret selling it.

Some will claim that our beloved Lightning is a ticking time bomb from all the battery modules going bad. How's that going to be different from the EREV issues you encountered? I'm not trying to imply anything by asking, genuinely curious since I don't have any first hand experience.

 

[flyct]

I think this RAM is going to sell well, assuming it’s priced right. It opens up the market to EV haters who complain about range.

Chevy Volt used the same system of electric battery and motors Replenished by a Gas generator. The two people that I know who owned one loved them. EV range satisfied 90+% of their driving needs. One reported only 8 gallons of gas used in a year.

I almost bought a Volt but it was too small for me. Getting in and it was like a Tesla Model 3. I didn’t fit.

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