F-150 Lightning AC fully discharged at 40k miles – paid out of pocket, is this normal under Ford Protect?

[Maquis]

Service manager said at 40,000 miles the dye doesn’t show up. My guess is that in order to check the entire system, you’d need to remove the chassis, but I’m unsure.

So he’s saying the dye can read the miles on your truck?

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[sd25]

I've had a couple of leaks in the AC system that cools the battery (Max Tow package) that were fixed while still under warranty. First one was on the high side port valve which was an easy fix.

Most recent one was very hard to find. Happened during a road trip and that dealer couldn't find the leak so they just refilled the system. Luckily I have a good local dealership and explaining the issue when I got home got them to keep looking.

They eventually found evidence of a leak (uv dye) near the compressor seal on the low side. They said the way the seal was pinched, it may have been there since delivery. Dealer had to drop the HV battery to access the compressor and replace the seal.

 

[Maxx]

Sounds like you need a hammer and a nail to make sure a part is replaced.

This is the reason many don’t get the extended warranty. It does not provide the peace of mind it advertises.

 

[bc1]

Just wondering if it was stolen. I don't know where the hose connections are for the gauges but if easy to get at then possible

 

[designthis]

I've had a couple of leaks in the AC system that cools the battery (Max Tow package) that were fixed while still under warranty. First one was on the high side port valve which was an easy fix.

Most recent one was very hard to find. Happened during a road trip and that dealer couldn't find the leak so they just refilled the system. Luckily I have a good local dealership and explaining the issue when I got home got them to keep looking.

They eventually found evidence of a leak (uv dye) near the compressor seal on the low side. They said the way the seal was pinched, it may have been there since delivery. Dealer had to drop the HV battery to access the compressor and replace the seal.

This is really helpful.
Mine was completely empty, dealer couldn’t find a leak after vacuum + sniffer, recharged it and sent me on my way.
Interesting that yours ended up being at the compressor seal and took a second pass to find. That lines up with what they told me—that small/intermittent leaks often don’t show until the system has been running again.
Curious—did your AC performance degrade gradually, or did it just stop working all at once?

 

[RLXXI]

Just wondering if it was stolen. I don't know where the hose connections are for the gauges but if easy to get at then possible

Only thing that was stolen here is the truth. His dealer screwed him for reasons most likely related to lack of knowledge or laziness. It's also possible they lied just because they're crooks, knew they weren't qualified to work on these electric machines and associated systems and just went for the easy cash.

I've got over 30 years of automotive hvac experience, fully trained and Ford certified (standard ac systems) and when I got to looking around at the system in my own truck (heat pump) was the instant I bought an extended warranty. (I've personally seen them paid for in one visit) in my own shop. To the "ESP isn't worth it" crowd, It's pom insurance.

Yes I know how the system works for the most part and can do certain repairs like a simple evacuate and recharge, replace some leaking o -rings, hoses, obvious components and such. Anything else and it's going in to an expert, not that I'm not, just that I've never had formal training on these type systems and wouldn't trust myself to not screw it up somehow.

 

[Mike G]

This is the only issue my Lightning has had that's required a dealer visit (three times in fact). Powertrain warning for low refrigerant. And it always happened after a major overnight temperature drop (winter). Everything seems to work normally. I take it in and the refrigerant is not really low at all. But they vacuum the system to make sure, and the vacuum holds so they fill it back up. The first time there was a slight differential in what the pressure sensor read versus what the Robinair machine read so they replaced the pressure sensor. It did it again after two weeks. Went back in and again, vacuum and restore with essentially no gas lost. That was like two years ago, then it happened again I think last winter, and I noticed in PTS that the DTC had a SSM/TSB about it for F-150s (other than the Lightning)...something about ignoring it because it was a known error (can't remember exactly). But shortly after I read that in a few days that DTC actually disappeared from the DTC history in PTS (like the error had been suppressed) and the symptoms haven't come back. Bottom line, in my case I don't think there was an actual leak....I think some software threshold value was set too low, and it was being tripped when the outside air temp dropped into freezing overnight. My SA and the tech and I have had several discussions about this (obviously) and apparently it can happen. But I've got one of the most thoroughly diagnosed and micro-managed HVAC systems out there by now.

 

[designthis]

Sounds like you need a hammer and a nail to make sure a part is replaced.

This is the reason many don’t get the extended warranty. It does not provide the peace of mind it advertises.

I was skeptical about the warranty, mostly because I was thinking, “what could go wrong?” And of course Murphy’s Law says the first thing that goes wrong in 40k miles, they don’t cover… But, if they do eventually find a leak and have to drop the HV battery, I wonder what that would cost to fix without a warranty? My guess is more than $400 !

This is the only issue my Lightning has had that's required a dealer visit (three times in fact). Powertrain warning for low refrigerant. And it always happened after a major overnight temperature drop (winter). Everything seems to work normally. I take it in and the refrigerant is not really low at all. But they vacuum the system to make sure, and the vacuum holds so they fill it back up. The first time there was a slight differential in what the pressure sensor read versus what the Robinair machine read so they replaced the pressure sensor. It did it again after two weeks. Went back in and again, vacuum and restore with essentially no gas lost. That was like two years ago, then it happened again I think last winter, and I noticed in PTS that the DTC had a SSM/TSB about it for F-150s (other than the Lightning)...something about ignoring it because it was a known error (can't remember exactly). But shortly after I read that in a few days that DTC actually disappeared from the DTC history in PTS (like the error had been suppressed) and the symptoms haven't come back. Bottom line, in my case I don't think there was an actual leak....I think some software threshold value was set too low, and it was being tripped when the outside air temp dropped into freezing overnight. My SA and the tech and I have had several discussions about this (obviously) and apparently it can happen. But I've got one of the most thoroughly diagnosed and micro-managed HVAC systems out there by now.

Were you still under the 3yr/36k bumper-to-bumper warranty when this was happening, or did you have an extended plan? Curious how the charges were handled since I’m just past 40k and they treated mine as out-of-pocket unless a failed part is found.

 

[Mike G]

I was skeptical about the warranty, mostly because I was thinking, “what could go wrong?” And of course Murphy’s Law says the first thing that goes wrong in 40k miles, they don’t cover… But, if they do eventually find a leak and have to drop the HV battery, I wonder what that would cost to fix without a warranty? My guess is more than $400 !


Were you still under the 3yr/36k bumper-to-bumper warranty when this was happening, or did you have an extended plan? Curious how the charges were handled since I’m just past 40k and they treated mine as out-of-pocket unless a failed part is found.

I was still under warranty. But I do have an extended warranty as well.

 

[sd25]

This is really helpful.
Mine was completely empty, dealer couldn’t find a leak after vacuum + sniffer, recharged it and sent me on my way.
Interesting that yours ended up being at the compressor seal and took a second pass to find. That lines up with what they told me—that small/intermittent leaks often don’t show until the system has been running again.
Curious—did your AC performance degrade gradually, or did it just stop working all at once?

Since the leak in mine was in the HV battery cooling loop, my cabin AC was working fine. I only noticed an issue when Level 3 charging during a road trip in hot weather. After a couple of minutes, the charging always slowed down to about 50 KW (should have stayed in the 120KW-160KW range). At the end of the charging session my battery temp gauge was in the red.

 

[designthis]

This is fascinating—and honestly not what I expected. Mine was completely empty and the cabin AC wasn’t working at all, so I assumed it was just a straightforward AC issue. And the service manager—knowingly or not—tried to minimize the whole thing by saying it’s no different than ICE trucks he see all the time.
I’m just now realizing it’s a shared system and can show up very differently depending on how much refrigerant is left.
Also worth noting—I’ve only Level 2 charged and this happened in cool weather, so I never saw the kind of thermal issues you’re describing. Makes sense now that I probably would have seen something similar if I’d been fast charging in hot weather.

 

[bc1]

Only thing that was stolen here is the truth. His dealer screwed him for reasons most likely related to lack of knowledge or laziness. It's also possible they lied just because they're crooks, knew they weren't qualified to work on these electric machines and associated systems and just went for the easy cash.

I've got over 30 years of automotive hvac experience, fully trained and Ford certified (standard ac systems) and when I got to looking around at the system in my own truck (heat pump) was the instant I bought an extended warranty. (I've personally seen them paid for in one visit) in my own shop. To the "ESP isn't worth it" crowd, It's pom insurance.

Yes I know how the system works for the most part and can do certain repairs like a simple evacuate and recharge, replace some leaking o -rings, hoses, obvious components and such. Anything else and it's going in to an expert, not that I'm not, just that I've never had formal training on these type systems and wouldn't trust myself to not screw it up somehow.

OK. Just remember all the stories about the old R-12 being stolen by dealers and shops when it was phased out. I'll keep you in mind as I bot an automotive freon recovery machines at an auction a while back and need to figure out what is leaking on my 2001 f150. Haven't used it yet but I got a recovery tank for it and i don't want to spend the bux for a large canister of freon so any refilling would come from the small rattle type cans. Hopefully it will work whenever I get to that project which is down at the bottom of my list of projects.

 

[sfguy]

Looks like I'm about to join the AC fail on my 2023 platinum. Just tried my AC for the first time this spring - no joy. It worked perfectly last time I used it in the late fall. It's a couple of weeks before I can get an appointment at the dealer due to snow tire change overs. Not looking forward to this. I've already cancelled a long trip as I am not sure if battery cooling is affected. I'm at 60k kms and I do have the protection plan.

 

[designthis]

Sorry about the cancelled trip—that’s a tough call. Mine’s been holding so far, but it’s only been a few days and the appointment itself was quick. If they actually find the leak on yours, I imagine it could take longer depending on where it is and how accessible it is.
Definitely report back—I’d be really curious what they find. Good luck!

 

[TaxmanHog]

Looks like I'm about to join the AC fail on my 2023 platinum. Just tried my AC for the first time this spring - no joy. It worked perfectly last time I used it in the late fall. It's a couple of weeks before I can get an appointment at the dealer due to snow tire change overs. Not looking forward to this. I've already cancelled a long trip as I am not sure if battery cooling is affected. I'm at 60k kms and I do have the protection plan.

Your Platinum has separate AC units, the cabin HVAC failure should have no impact on the HVB, it's probably fine, but do keep an eye on the battery temp gauge

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