GM writes down $6 billion of EV debt

[Mal106]

With absolutely no political party insinuation ... I personally believe that the excess production capacity of EV's was caused by the U.S. government push, which created the perception of more customer demand for EV's than actually existed.

I also have to wonder how much the general nature that seems so American has to do with it. The government mandates we sit and we stand.

Sponsored

 

[Mach Turtle]

With absolutely no political party insinuation ... I personally believe that the excess production capacity of EV's was caused by the U.S. government push, which created the perception of more customer demand for EV's than actually existed.

Profitability will ultimately be determined by providing customers what they demand, when they demand it, and at a price they are willing to pay ... in addition to good business management. Central planning of products for consumers almost always fails. Central government planning does not work for food in Russia, or automobiles in the U.S.

Let the market create the pull, versus the government trying to push it. That is how free enterprise works.

Some good points made. What's missing, though, is the effect of advertising, which is becoming more targeted, manipulative, and effective at controlling people's behavior every year. Companies and politicians do it, and we are exposed to it incessantly. These days, they're pulling us into the past instead of leading us into the future.

To a great extent, people believe what they've been told to believe and want what they've been told to want. Most "range anxiety" is overblown, hyped up to scare potential buyers. (Yes, there are charging deserts and this isn't the case for everyone, but range anxiety is just made up for many people.) Myths about EV fires, weight, battery life, costs, etc. just won't go away.

If the market really created the pull according to what's best for the consumers, the demand would be very different, and we'd be better off. That is how free enterprise should work, but not how it does right now. Our market can and should be repaired, but at this time we're going the other way.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Remember that write-off/down is not reusable, and the true value of what has been learned and facilities prepared are not actually LOST, when the time is right and demand rises, they will ramp product built better from the lessons learned, at that point they will sell said product and the resulting income will be taxed with a net higher take to the state and federal treasuries.

 

[WXman]

Any smart business will go to where the money is. Not only are these huge automakers far more profitable selling horse-drawn buggies, but the sheer* number of suppliers and people they employ who make the parts for horse-drawn buggies constitutes* a giant part of our economy and provides a great living wage for families.

Fixed it for you.
EVs are the future and the world is leaving us in the dust. If the current administration wanted to cripple the US in nearly every aspect of world competition, it'd be hard to detail how they would do anything different than they are doing right now.

This is the single dumbest thing I've read all week. Congrats.

Why does everybody keep bringing up China? And "the rest of the world"? That's nowhere remotely close to a fair or even comparison. Do the chinese pull heavy trailers hundreds of miles for work? Do they enjoy recreation towing a camper across the country? Last I checked they all use public busses and trains, and you can't pull a camper behind a public bus or train.

Totally different cultures, totally different use cases.

But since you felt the need to bring up "horse-drawn buggies" I assume you realize that the "horseless carriage" aka the ICE powered automobile replaced the horse-drawn buggy over a century ago, right? And since then nothing has replaced ICE as the dominant means of transportation. Why is that? And no, the oil companies are not why. Try again.

Answer: There still isn't anything superior for the majority of citizens.

 

[ElectrifyingMe25]

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...e-6-billion-writedown-ev-pullback-2026-01-08/

The answer to all of EV's issues is the solid state battery with the specs that Donut Labs claims. If these batteries, or ones like them, come into fruition, then EVs will be just as convenient to charge as filling a car with gasoline and the range will be 2x. The EVs will out perform ICE cars in ever single category. It will be like cassette tapes being replaced with CD's and DVD's. The day is coming soon. Remember the feeling you had when your car sported the latest cassette deck, and your friend had the cool CD player. Soon you upgraded to a CD player. The same will happen with EVs.

 

[chl]

A lot of hype nonsense out of Detroit. Or wherever these are all made. This will be one of those silent failures like our railways. We had one of the most robust railways and let it goto rot with regard to transportation. Interstates came and the corporate greed machine latched onto the need for freedom of mobility. This reminds me of the Jerry reed song “lord Mr. Ford”, I’m sure someone on here has heard that and if you haven’t give it a few plays on that high tech radio in your lightning.

Well if you're one of the millions who own one of them gas-drinkin'
Piston-clankin' air-pollutin' smoke-belchin' four-wheeled buggies
From Detroit City then pay attention, I'm about to sing your song son
Well now I'm not a man appointed judge
To bear ill will and to hold a grudge
But I think it's time I said me a few choice words
All about that demon the automobile the
Metal monster with the polyglass wheels
The end result of the dream of Henry Ford
Well now I've got a car that's mine
Alone that me and the finance company own
A ready-made pile of manufactured grief
And if I ain't out of gas in the pouring
Rain I'm a-changing a flat in a hurricane
I once spent three days lost on a cloverleaf
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic
Jam that makes me the bitter fool I am
But this four-wheeled buggy is a dollar and me to death
For gas and oils and fluids and grease
And wires and tires and antifreeze
And them accessories well honey that's something else
Well you can get stereo tape and a color
TV get a back-seat bar and reclining seats
And just pay once a month like you do your rent
Well I figured it up and over a period of
Time this four thousand dollar car of mine
Cost fourteen thousand dollars and ninety-nine cents
Well now Lord Mr. Ford I just wish that you could see
What your simple horseless carriage has become
Well it seems your contribution to man to
Say the least got a little out of hand
Well Lord Mr. Ford what have you done
Now the average American father and
Mother own one whole car and half another
And I'll bet that half a car's a trick to drive don't you
But the thing that amazes me I guess
Is the way we measure a man's success
By the kind of an automobile he can afford to buy
Well now red light green light traffic
Cop right turn no turn must turn stop
Get out the credit card honey we're out of gas
Well now all the cars placed end to end
Would reach to the moon and back again
There'd probably be some poor fool without the pass
Well now how I yearn for the good old
Days without that carbon dioxide haze
A-hanging over the roar of the interstate
Well if the Lord that made the moon and the stars
Would have meant for me and you to have cars
He'd have seen that we was all born with a parking space
Lord Mr. Ford I just wish that you could see
What your simple horseless carriage has become
Well it seems your contribution to man to
Say the least got a little out of hand
Well Lord Mr. Ford what have you done
Come away with me Lucille in my smoking choking automobile
Source: Musixmatch
Songwriters: Dick Feller

 

[chl]

This is the single dumbest thing I've read all week. Congrats.

Why does everybody keep bringing up China? And "the rest of the world"? That's nowhere remotely close to a fair or even comparison. Do the chinese pull heavy trailers hundreds of miles for work? Do they enjoy recreation towing a camper across the country? Last I checked they all use public busses and trains, and you can't pull a camper behind a public bus or train.

Totally different cultures, totally different use cases.

But since you felt the need to bring up "horse-drawn buggies" I assume you realize that the "horseless carriage" aka the ICE powered automobile replaced the horse-drawn buggy over a century ago, right? And since then nothing has replaced ICE as the dominant means of transportation. Why is that? And no, the oil companies are not why. Try again.

Answer: There still isn't anything superior for the majority of citizens.

The Chinese are selling their EVs all over the planet, not just in China...except America...in other cultures that enjoy all the things you attribute to the US of A.

And the EV infrastructure was employing loads of people in the US, as was the EV and battery manufacturing initiatives.

That was before big oil took back control of the political levers and US automakers were hit with huge tariffs and threats of retaliation if they didn't play ball.

EVs sales are growing all over the world according to recent data. Read some independent news sources with unbiased reporters.

BYD and Tesla are the leaders in EV sales around the world. The EV market share is 20% and growing.

Anyone who owns an EV can tell you why they are superior.

This is the US taking a giant step back into the 20th century.

It won't last longer than the next election of more reasonable forward looking people untainted by big oil money, who don't cower to threats from small minded wanna be's.

Trolling won't change the facts.

 

[MaintGrl]

The Chinese are selling their EVs all over the planet, not just in China...except America...in other cultures that enjoy all the things you attribute to the US of A.

And the EV infrastructure was employing loads of people in the US, as was the EV and battery manufacturing initiatives.

That was before big oil took back control of the political levers and US automakers were hit with huge tariffs and threats of retaliation if they didn't play ball.

EVs sales are growing all over the world according to recent data. Read some independent news sources with unbiased reporters.

BYD and Tesla are the leaders in EV sales around the world. The EV market share is 20% and growing.

Anyone who owns an EV can tell you why they are superior.

This is the US taking a giant step back into the 20th century.

It won't last longer than the next election of more reasonable forward looking people untainted by big oil money, who don't cower to threats from small minded wanna be's.

Trolling won't change the facts.

Thank you, my thoughts exactly...one step forward . . two steps back.

 

[Firn]

With absolutely no political party insinuation ... I personally believe that the excess production capacity of EV's was caused by the U.S. government push, which created the perception of more customer demand for EV's than actually existed.

Profitability will ultimately be determined by providing customers what they demand, when they demand it, and at a price they are willing to pay ... in addition to good business management. Central planning of products for consumers almost always fails. Central government planning does not work for food in Russia, or automobiles in the U.S.

Let the market create the pull, versus the government trying to push it. That is how free enterprise works.

Assuming a perfectly free market is a perfect market that will adapt and provide what is best for the consumer is a fallacy.

The consumer, people, are heavily biased and manipulated. They will choose what's best for them right now, not what is best for them in the long run.

They also rarely have views of the big picture.

The push for EVs is not because they are better now, its because they will be better later. In cost, in flexibility, in energy independence, and in environmental impact.

But the consumer wont pick what is better for them later, if they even know, they pick what's better for themselves now.

Economic myopia, tragedy of the commons, tragedy of the anticommons, present bias, positional arms race. All these impact a free market.

 

[Jim Lewis]

@chl +++
Love your new avatar!

 

[Jim Lewis]

Assuming a perfectly free market is a perfect market that will adapt and provide what is best for the consumer is a fallacy.

100% agree. The FDA exists because, in the 19th century, quite a few companies sold doctored, fake food products to maximize their profit. Free enterprise does not guarantee that only good guys survive and rise to the top in any market, or that the products they sell are impeccably safe. Free enterprise did not remove the smog from the LA air that dominated the mid-20th century. You could be in Pasadena and not see the San Gabriel Mountains for the smog.

 

[CD4TNF]

Question that's been bugging me, as I'm not into the complicated finances. Does the write off from Ford, GM, etc wipe the slate for EV costs? I recall Farley making Ford's goal to "show [him] EVs that would be profitable within 12 months."

Does the write offs Zero out the R&D, facility building, factory, kinds of EV costs so any new EVs can be "profitable" on the accounting?

Hope someone make sense of my lack of understanding

 

[Mal106]

Good question. I've never used my MBA so whether I truly understand it or not has to be questioned.

"how does the accounting for fords ev write downs work"

Googling that will give you a good overview.

Someone mentioned that R&D is not lost. That is true plus there are already some nice tax benefits for R&D. When I mentioned they will have to start over, I referred to most all else: manufacturing, supply chain, administration, dealer support, etc.

 

[Ridge_Racer]

With absolutely no political party insinuation ... I personally believe that the excess production capacity of EV's was caused by the U.S. government push, which created the perception of more customer demand for EV's than actually existed.

Profitability will ultimately be determined by providing customers what they demand, when they demand it, and at a price they are willing to pay ... in addition to good business management. Central planning of products for consumers almost always fails. Central government planning does not work for food in Russia, or automobiles in the U.S.

Let the market create the pull, versus the government trying to push it. That is how free enterprise works.

It’s not a free market when they are actively banning the sale of Chinese EVs in America.

Sponsored