Article / chart: how temperature affects EV battery range

[Wolf Man]

Sorry, had some difficulties with this posting and was unable to delete it. If you want to to read the article try clicking the link.

https://www.axios.com/the-cold-hard...ter-c6e35798-92c5-4ef2-9a67-029a693436dc.html

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[shutterbug]

Sorry, had some difficulties with this posting and was unable to delete it. If you want to to read the article try clicking the link.

https://www.axios.com/the-cold-hard...ter-c6e35798-92c5-4ef2-9a67-029a693436dc.html

In other "breaking" news: Dog bites man

 

[sotek2345]

Yup - current EV tech has some issues in cold weather. If you know about it and plan for it, it is a complete non-issue. If you are unaware until your first winter with a new vehicle it will come as a nasty surprise. More education is needed.

 

[Dave242]

To me the single most troubling part of this is the Mustang Mach-E numbers: only 94% of full/advertised charge available at 70F, and only 68% at 25F! By far the worst of new technology! Does the Lightning use the same battery technology (and marketing department)? Is this even close to accurate to begin with?

I realize the main caveat of this data (as stated in Recurrent's study): "Note that the range losses are based on on-board telematics and reflect the OEMs proprietary range calculations and software." So we are not comparing apples to apples. But still.....

 

[gorwell]

Of note on this is that the data used come from the EV itself and what it reports. It's aggregated from people who submit their data to current -- so outside of Temperature, nothing is controlled.

There's a big caveat in recurrent's data for Tesla that the Axios article doesn't convey.

The Axios article really doesn't need to exist, just look at Recurrent's data: https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss

What Recurrent says on Tesla:

"
As evidenced below, it appears in the Model 3 data that there is almost no change in available range in cold or hot conditions,

This is because Tesla’s on-board computers synthesize a consistent experience -- in the real world, drivers do experience lower range in the winter and summer. Recurrent is working to ground-truth the real world range to understand exactly how much Teslas are affected by temperature changes and to let drivers know what to expect. "

There is zero scenario where a EV performs the same @ 70F and at 30F. Unless, you kept the tesla in a garage, and preconditioned it before the drive and maybe didn't use heat, and didn't drive far enough for the battery to cool down.

 

[gorwell]

To me the single most troubling part of this is the Mustang Mach-E numbers: only 94% of full/advertised charge available at 70F, and only 68% at 25F! By far the worst of new technology! Does the Lightning use the same battery technology (and marketing department)? Is this even close to accurate to begin with?

This is just life w/ and w/o a heat pump for an EV.

If you sell an EV to anyplace where the weather is consistently below 40F, it should have a heat pump.

It's not clear to me why Ford didn't use a heatpump for any models of the Mach-e (and the Lightning).

Being in California, a heat pump doesn't matter much. But on the East Coast / Canada, it'd be hard to buy a car w/o one based on the range impact in Winter.

 

[shutterbug]

It's not clear to me why Ford didn't use a heatpump for any models of the Mach-e (and the Lightning).

It's actually pretty clear and unambiguous. Ford has not included heat pump in any MME, not a single one. Also not installing it into any of the Lightnings. They might change their mind later, but right now no.

 

[Dave242]

It's actually pretty clear and unambiguous. Ford has not included heat pump in any MME, not a single one. Also not installing it into any of the Lightnings. They might change their mind later, but right now no.

This does not compute in my way of thinking. You could have small 1500W heater on full blast (and that would bake you in the cabin) for the entire trip. Assume the battery has 83kW in the cold (98kW (SR) with a 15% hit for coldish - 25F). Assume 4 hours mix mode driving to deplete the battery - then 6kW of available 83kW goes to the heater. 6kW is only an additional 6% of the 98kW total.

This gets you to 77%....and the chart shows 68%. If a heat pump is 2x as efficient, that is a 3% boost.

https://www.amazon.com/Dreo-Space-Heater-70°Oscillating-Thermostat/dp/B097RG67QB/

 

[gorwell]

Speak of the devil:

Roadshow just released a video about EXTREME winter conditions.

Most is about traction/driving... but last bit is about range.. that part is queued:




"Big thing they are focusing on is educating them on how to deal w/ loss"... instead of adding a heat pump

 

[gorwell]

Here's another take on the temperature impact of EVs:

https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-range/

I like this chart:

 

[Ruination]

Besides the fact that a great pump doesn't even work when it's actually cold.

 

[beatle]

It's not the heater that kills your range, it's the air resistance. The colder air is denser and requires more power to propel the vehicle through it.

The most efficient trips I've gotten in my Tesla have been with the AC on and the temps in the mid to upper 80s with high humidity.

 

[Tony Burgh]

It's not the heater that kills your range, it's the air resistance. The colder air is denser and requires more power to propel the vehicle through it.

The most efficient trips I've gotten in my Tesla have been with the AC on and the temps in the mid to upper 80s with high humidity.

A/C is the heat pump cold side that Lightning should have on hot side too.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

This is just life w/ and w/o a heat pump for an EV.

If you sell an EV to anyplace where the weather is consistently below 40F, it should have a heat pump.

It's not clear to me why Ford didn't use a heatpump for any models of the Mach-e (and the Lightning).

Being in California, a heat pump doesn't matter much. But on the East Coast / Canada, it'd be hard to buy a car w/o one based on the range impact in Winter.

Being in the NE, I REALLY don't want another car with a heat pump. I prefer my older Tesla's heating system (resistive) compared to my newer Tesla's heat pump. The old car gets less range but it has never prevented us from getting anywhere in 6+ years. The new car's heat pump has left us w/o heat and has been a headache to deal with Tesla to get it fixed. Resistive for me any day.

 

[fitek]

I just installed a new home heat pump that works down to -4F. The 2002 system we had before worked down to mid 30s. The tech has been improving... guessing Ford needs to invest in some more R&D.

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