contractors will buy millions of Lightnings

[Mtnman1]

Energy storage solutions can cover this in the long term, but the tech (more accurately manufacturing infrastructure) for across the board usage isn't there yet (battery storage at grid scale). It could be done in some locations with pumped hydro, but local geography is the driver there.

Yup. Not to mention the whole 120vac/60hz issue.

Future grid 24vdc? Maybe the winner of that battle wasnt really the winner.

Someone needs to figure out storage at the grid level as you say. Has anyone taken a really good look at the flux capacitor?????

Batteries as we know them today clearly are not the answer.

Whoever solves this issue and discovers a real long term storage solution will surpase Edison, Westinghouse, and Telsa in the history books.

Hopefully the feds will stay out if his/her way.

If anyone wants to hear about the Lake Erie wind farm fiasco, as an example, let me know.

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[Nick Gerteis]

10 years in very unrealistic. And technolog is no where near mature.

Fun fact. Those 75, 100 foot blades on the turbines? Have to be replaced every 20 years. The ones removed cannot be reused. They cannot be recycled. They cannot be burned.

There is a problem without solution.

And storage for the power from wind in solar is a huge problem. Technology does not exist yet to make these viable long term.

We won’t need as much storage as we think: grid will be improved to take advantage of the fact that it’s always sunny or windy somewhere. Pumped storage and stationary batteries exist today and will be scaled up. But the best solution for all our storage needs is our soon to be 100% EV vehicle fleet: 100 kWh batteries in every driveway that only use 20 most days, and V2G tech like on the Lightning. Charge when the sun is shining, use when you need it. Problem solved.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

Renewables CANNOT be the only generation on the grid. This is fact.

And it does not take 20 yrs to build.

How many issues have we had with all the nuke plants in the USA? There's like 55-60 in operation currently.

Renewables plus storage not only CAN supply our entire grid, but they WILL within the next 10-20 years. That’s a fact! Arguing about it is pointless as we will all see the transition unfold, it’s already happening and will only accelerate.

 

[Mtnman1]

We won’t need as much storage as we think: grid will be improved to take advantage of the fact that it’s always sunny or windy somewhere. Pumped storage and stationary batteries exist today and will be scaled up. But the best solution for all our storage needs is our soon to be 100% EV vehicle fleet: 100 kWh batteries in every driveway that only use 20 most days, and V2G tech like on the Lightning. Charge when the sun is shining, use when you need it. Problem solved.

Sunny in California will mean nothing to those in Maine. 24vdc cannot be sent long distance. Main reason 120vac won that battle long ago.

Much more complicated

 

[Mtnman1]

Renewables plus storage not only CAN supply our entire grid, but they WILL within the next 10-20 years. That’s a fact! Arguing about it is pointless as we will all see the transition unfold, it’s already happening and will only accelerate.

10-20 years is unrealistic.

You are missing out on the limitations of 24vdc. There is a reason why 120vac is required.

 

[SteffanG]

24VDC will never be adopted. The voltage drop would be massive even going 100ft when drawing a lot of power. Transforming 24VDC to something like 200,000VDC to transmit the power over distances is not cost effective unless it is VERY long distances and A LOT of power. The equipment necessary to do that is expensive compared to transformers used for AC power.
Changing AC voltages is very easy in relation to changing DC Voltages (look at even small industrial power supplies - AC is about $20 transformer, DC is about $100 power supply.)

 

[TaxmanHog]

Yup. Not to mention the whole 120vac/60hz issue.

My wild vision ..... transcontinental [giga/mega/kilo/what'eva] AC volt transmission lines, but my solution hits a road block with all the Euro folks running at 50hz, if we were all on similar frequency then inverting available solar capacity at any point on the planet three or six fold to trade with the rest of the world makes solar a possible base load solution, but look at the policy and geopolitical matters that would be in the way.

 

[Mhubbardva1]

No. The vast majority of charging is done at night when there is excess capacity.

I have been told that the average subdivision grid in areas including Washington DC area would not be able to handle 50% of the households at night charging vehicles if the A/C units were also running in mid summer. A major upgrade would be required to accomplish this.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

10-20 years is unrealistic.

You are missing out on the limitations of 24vdc. There is a reason why 120vac is required.

What’s with the weird 24 V DC straw man? Neither I nor AFAIK anyone else, ever, has suggested using this voltage for long distance transmission. The cables would be just a touch too thick! Do you bring this up because that’s what a solar panel puts out? Well, usually an inverter turns it into 240 V AC, this can then be stepped up in a transformer to X amount of KV, and can be sent long distances quite efficiently. We are using the existing grid for this today, and grid improvements and solar buildout will go happily hand in hand to 100%.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

I have been told that the average subdivision grid in areas including Washington DC area would not be able to handle 50% of the households at night charging vehicles if the A/C units were also running in mid summer. A major upgrade would be required to accomplish this.

Trivial hardware swap, especially since it’ll be slowly phased in over the next 10-20 years, not overnight. Easily paid for by the $$savings from never having to buy gas again.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

My wild vision ..... transcontinental [giga/mega/kilo/what'eva] AC volt transmission lines, but my solution hits a road block with all the Euro folks running at 50hz, if we were all on similar frequency then inverting available solar capacity at any point on the planet three or six fold to trade with the rest of the world makes solar a possible base load solution, but look at the policy and geopolitical matters that would be in the way.

I love that you’re thinking big and out of the box, but you’re almost trying to take too big of a step. Even if we just take North America, or even just US, we’re covering enough ground to smooth out intermittency of renewables and make it truly 100% of our power needs.

 

[Mtnman1]

What’s with the weird 24 V DC straw man? Neither I nor AFAIK anyone else, ever, has suggested using this voltage for long distance transmission. The cables would be just a touch too thick! Do you bring this up because that’s what a solar panel puts out? Well, usually an inverter turns it into 240 V AC, this can then be stepped up in a transformer to X amount of KV, and can be sent long distances quite efficiently. We are using the existing grid for this today, and grid improvements and solar buildout will go happily hand in hand to 100%.

Straw man? Really?

You are talking small area, when the problem is with the grid. Solar and wind cannot power the grid.

Sorry if you cant understand this.

 

[Mtnman1]

Trivial hardware swap, especially since it’ll be slowly phased in over the next 10-20 years, not overnight. Easily paid for by the $$savings from never having to buy gas again.

Lol. Nothing trival about this.

You obviously have no clue how the grid works or what it takes to generate the amount of MW required.

 

[Mtnman1]

24VDC will never be adopted. The voltage drop would be massive even going 100ft when drawing a lot of power. Transforming 24VDC to something like 200,000VDC to transmit the power over distances is not cost effective unless it is VERY long distances and A LOT of power. The equipment necessary to do that is expensive compared to transformers used for AC power.
Changing AC voltages is very easy in relation to changing DC Voltages (look at even small industrial power supplies - AC is about $20 transformer, DC is about $100 power supply.)

Not as it is today. I realize why 120 vac was adopted.

There is work being down now on "mini" generation plants. Still 120, but can see where there can be cases for 24.

Plus there is no way anyone can expect every person to replace every appliance they have and convert their house to 24vdc.

There is also a lot going on with wireless power. Very facinating.

We actually have some wireless transmitters in R&D. Wireless signals plus wireless power.

Not sure what will come of this, but very cool either way

 

[SteffanG]

My wild vision ..... transcontinental [giga/mega/kilo/what'eva] AC volt transmission lines, but my solution hits a road block with all the Euro folks running at 50hz, if we were all on similar frequency then inverting available solar capacity at any point on the planet three or six fold to trade with the rest of the world makes solar a possible base load solution, but look at the policy and geopolitical matters that would be in the way.

No roadblock there. The amount of power and distance the cables would need to travel is actually cheaper to use DC voltages due to losses when transmitting high voltage AC. The inverters at both ends of the cable would be able to account for the AC frequency differences.
There are cases where high voltage DC is used, and this would be one of them. A lot of the undersea power cables run DC voltages.

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