Dc fast charger 50 KW

[Yellow Buddy]

Why will ford not accept the full 50 kWh
My truck charges at 40kwh and after 1hr it reaches 45 maybe and other cars can get 47-49kwh

350kwh chargers it goes straight to max the truck can expect ?

Soc 6%.
1hr57min 82%

@biers has the right answer.

Summary: KW is a function of Voltage multiplied by Amperage. Our truck's pack is somewhat fixed on a 400V architecture, that's the nominal voltage. However we are slightly under that as IIRC our trucks are actually around 370V.

The problem is not with the 350 they work great the problem is with 50kwh and 100kwh
I only ever get 40-45kwh And 80-90kwh
Which on 50 mean 2 hrs waiting any way hopefully there new charger coming to this high way

The 350's work fine because they offer more than enough amps, they typically support 500A which our trucks can handle. Move to a 150KW charger and you'll start seeing the issue again.

So using the same math above. 370V * 500A = 185KW which max's our truck out.
If you charge at 370V * 350A = 129.5KW even though the charger may be branded a 150KW charger or sometimes a 350KW charger if they handle high voltages.

The true limitation for our truck is amperage as that's what must be squeezed through. The voltage of the pack multiplied by amperage equals the KW. Faster chargers have thicker cables, more thermal management to allow for higher KW but the pack voltage is a (near) constant.

Other cars can get higher likely because they have higher voltages. The R1T for example has a 459V max despite also being on a 400V architecture. Even within the same model vehicle, the pack voltages can differ which alter the overall KW rate as we see on the Kia EV9. Both are "800V Architecture" but the long range only has 552V (210KW Max) whereas the short range has 632V (235KW Max)

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[TaxmanHog]

Don't forget the mid range 123kWh pack.

No doubt, I was digging for useful information, NEWBS on the forum should list their vehicle specifics accurately, then the number crunching can commence and useful timely information imparted on the masses.

CASE IN POINT

 

[Rtashiro]

They really should rate chargers in amps not kw. It would remove the confusion

 

[djwildstar]

Why will ford not accept the full 50 KW [...] 350 KW chargers it goes straight to max the truck can expect ?

The thing to remember here is that the advertised charger rate ("50kW" or "350kW") is the highest power level that the charger can deliver under ideal conditions. However, power in watts is made up of two components, voltage and current (measured in amps): volts x amps = watts. So a 50kW charger might be capable of up to 500 volts and up to 100 amps (500V x 100A = 50,000W = 50kW). A 350kW charger might be capable of up to 1000 volts and up to 350 amps (1000V x 350A = 350,000W = 350kW).

When charging a Lightning, the truck's battery pack sets the voltage, usually somewhere between 370V and 390V depending on the state of charge. The wrong voltage will fry the battery, so there's no wiggle room: the charger must deliver the voltage the truck requests. This already means that you're going to see a charging power that's lower than the maximum on the charger: for example, 380V x 100A = 38kW for a "50kW" charger, and 380V x 350A = 133kW for a "350kW" charger.

The charging current (amps) determines how quickly the charge cable, connectors, and wiring heats up. The Lightning can accept up to 500A for a while. However, the truck often has to limit charging current as the charge port, internal wiring, and battery heat up. Similarly, chargers often have to reduce their current output as the charge cable and charger electronics heat up. So the actual charging current is the lower of what the charger can safely deliver and what the truck can safely accept.

This means that your absolute best charging power is between 185kW (370V x 500A) and 195kW (390V x 500A) depending on the battery state of charge. The actual charging power is often less than this, depending on the current temperature of the battery, the truck's charge port and wiring, the charge cable, and the charger's internal temperature. Once the battery charges above 80%, the truck severely limits charging power to prevent battery overheating and damage.

The 250kW v3 Tesla SuperChargers are actually faster at charging the Lightning than many 350kW chargers, because the Tesla units are capable of up to 500V at up to 500A. This means that for the Lightning, they can approach the Lightning's theoretic ~195kW maximum charging rate. The SuperChargers can also keep supplying 500A for at least as long as the Lightning can accept it, for the best overall charge times. The Alpitronics 400kW chargers being installed at Buc-Ees and newer Electrify America locations are also excellent, in that they can deliver 500A for at least as long as the Lightning can accept it.

 

[K6CCC]

They really should rate chargers in amps not kw. It would remove the confusion

No. Amps will vary radically depending on battery voltage. KW is the actual charge rate and KWH is amount of power available or transferred.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

They really should rate chargers in amps not kw. It would remove the confusion

Unfortunately both will be relevant for a while until we get to the point where it’s either fast enough we don’t care, or standardized enough to be on the same voltages.

I’m not an electrician but the way I think about it is relating to gas, liquid has psi (voltage) and volume (amperage).

It could be a really big 3” hose. Massive volumes, gallons of gas can move through it. But if there’s no pressure it won’t fill fast.

In contrast, it can be a really small 1/4” hose. Even with massive amounts of pressure, you can only put so many gallons through the hose and it’ll still fill slowly.

 

[niall]

That the charger is only 50kW is a pretty good sign it's significantly current limited. It can probably only hit that 50kW number when your pack is well above 400V. Some other vehicles have packs with higher voltage even though they are all "400V" systems.

Used to see this all the time with Tesla cars at Chademo stations (or those old dual-handle 50kW Chademo/CCS stations you still see around here and there). The extended-range Tesla cars with more cells in series could hit the alleged "50kW" power for a good part of th charge cycle but the standard-range cars with less cells just couldn't.

A "350kW" station will max out your Lightning's charge rate for a good part of its cycle, because it can supply enough amps even when you're down below 400V. Contrariwise, those bulls_it "200kW" stations that EVgo and some other networks have now cannot, because their 200kW "rating" is at 1000V (!) for the few vehicles with >800V architecture - they are current limited at 200A, so at 400V they can supply only 80kW. It's a scam.

back at the 50kw charger and there a car getting 49kw and there charging at 429v 116amps

and I plug in 40kwh . 332v 125amps
Thanks for your answer
Waiting game the charger will ramp up to 45 kWh at the end of the my charge lol

 

[Firn]

back at the 50kw charger and there a car getting 49kw and there charging at 429v 116amps

and I plug in 40kwh . 332v 125amps
Thanks for your answer
Waiting game the charger will ramp up to 45 kWh at the end of the my charge lol

It will, and will do so every time.

As your truck charges the voltage of the pack increases. Since the charger is current limited, not voltage limited, this means that as the voltage increases (but current stays the same) the "KW" increases to match.

 

[potato]

It will, and will do so every time.

As your truck charges the voltage of the pack increases. Since the charger is current limited, not voltage limited, this means that as the voltage increases (but current stays the same) the "KW" increases to match.

Yes it's quite consistent that way. The corollary to that is that if you're traveling a route that requires using these current limited chargers, it's best to charge more often to keep the state of charge high. If you have a choice of stopping now vs. pushing on to the next town and rolling in at 10%, charge half now and half at the next town. You'll be charging faster if you start at a higher state of charge.

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