Disabling Vehicle Connectivity removes functionality

[theUNSTABLE]

Hello internet strangers,

I am someone who values my privacy and data security, especially when it comes to online services and mobile data usage / analytics.

After the recent article from Mozilla (It’s Official: Cars Are the Worst Product Category We Have Ever Reviewed for Privacy) where they shared their findings about privacy related to vehicle manufactures; I decided to disable the remaining data collectors on my Lightning.

I went into the connected vehicle settings and disabled:

• Share Driving Data
• Share Vehicle Analytics
• Share Vehicle Media

A few days later while I was charging I noticed that the Ford App was missing the charging indication while my vehicle was charging. I didn't get a charge fault if there is one, I didn't have any estimated charge time, etc.

Normally you have the footer at the bottom of the app with charge statistics, estimated time to charge, etc.
I'm sure all of you know exactly what I am talking about.

This is something I would consider core functionality to owning an electric vehicle.

I figured it might be a bug, or some issue with the app, but I remembered I disabled those features a few days ago.
I went out to my truck and played around with them.

I found out that if you want to see charging data through the mobile application, you must have Driving Data and Vehicle Analytics enabled.

I tried only enabling Analytics, but it would not work...you have to opt in to sharing and having Ford sell your data with "Ford and our third party partners" in order to have core vehicle functionality.

In addition it is not as if you can only enable Driving Data and Analytics to use this feature. When you have those toggled on, other data settings are enabled as well. Basically the only one you can have disabled is the media information.

PS I also posted this on Reddit if you think I'm a bot or something

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[ctuan13]

I also value my privacy and data security, which is why I have all connectivity disabled and the modem disconnected at all times when not running an update. I think trying to still use Ford Pass is antithetical to trying to maintain any semblance of security or privacy, but I understand why some still find it very useful or invaluable.

You might want to change the title of your post though as it would seem to suggest that you're experiencing FordPass no longer working after disabling connectivity, which is quite obvious.

But yeah, in theory, there should be a way to use FordPass without Ford selling your data. But in practice, even if there was a software option for that, there's no way I'd ever trust their empty assurance.

 

[theUNSTABLE]

I agree, it is antithetical to try and use the App, and still have control over privacy....but it shouldn't be. Which is kinda the reason I posted.
I didn't mean for the title to be confusing, I meant it as a warning to others because it basically comes down to 2 options.

1) Have privacy, but use no features (that should be core features) of your very expensive vehicle
2) Have your data sold


I really hate this timeline

 

[Mike G]

I'm glad the OP pointed this out. Enabling data sharing with Ford does tend to keep your vehicle's TCU talking to the cloud more or less regularly, and that's where PowerUps come from.

 

[TaxmanHog]

It would be nice to have a constrained communications option @Ford Motor Company

 

[RickLightning]

Vehicles are becoming more and more connected, not less. Connected Navigation. BlueCruise, etc.

If you don't like it, buy a Grand Marquis.

 

[hturnerfamily]

my Grand Marquis was connected...



my right foot was connected to the gas pedal..... a lot.
(actually, it was my '66 Mustang)

I believe the engineers, software engineers specifically, wanted to 'control' the data by making us 'choose' to give them information, even if we don't want to, in order to 'get' certain data, ourselves, such as charging speed, times, etc... although I'm not sure most of that data to us is really that useful - your driver screen indicates the 'range', which you can watch move up the longer you charge, and the DC Fast Charger itself tells you it's speed and other data, etc.
Well, yes, I do like the app telling me these things, especially if I've walked away from the truck... oh well.

 

[lerthe61]

Few last comments is an illustration on why this happens. Average user don't care, mostly because they don't understand what is data privacy.
+ 1 that Ford HAVE TO provide access to all functionality without sharing customers data.

 

[Whammy Bar]

Few last comments is an illustration on why this happens. Average user don't care, mostly because they don't understand what is data privacy.
+ 1 that Ford HAVE TO provide access to all functionality without sharing customers data.

I care, I just don't really have a choice.

So, when I do crimes, I use a car with a carburetor. Or a Prius if I gotta sneak up on a mother******.

 

[ivan256]

I also value my privacy and data security, which is why I have all connectivity disabled and the modem disconnected at all times when not running an update. I think trying to still use Ford Pass is antithetical to trying to maintain any semblance of security or privacy, but I understand why some still find it very useful or invaluable.

You might want to change the title of your post though as it would seem to suggest that you're experiencing FordPass no longer working after disabling connectivity, which is quite obvious.

But yeah, in theory, there should be a way to use FordPass without Ford selling your data. But in practice, even if there was a software option for that, there's no way I'd ever trust their empty assurance.

There are no features in FordPass that require Ford to keep a history of users' location data. There are no features in FordPass that require Ford to sell the data either.

I needs to be illegal to tie the permission to sell your personal data with unrelated features. It should be illegal to sell other people's personal data at all. There will be an onslaught of propaganda as these laws come up for vote and it's important to spread the word as widely as possible that there is absolutely no technical reason that your data become a tradeable commodity in order to implement any of the features that users care about.

The only people in favor of the sale of personal data are people who are profiting from it, and people who misunderstand what they're getting out of the deal. And that profit comes from somewhere.

Vehicles are becoming more and more connected, not less. Connected Navigation. BlueCruise, etc.

If you don't like it, buy a Grand Marquis.

This is a dangerous attitude. If you don't like it SPEAK UP. If you don't like it, explain over and over and over and over again to people who don't think it's a big deal why they are very, very wrong. Nothing is a foregone conclusion.

Vehicles can be connected without giving up the rights to your data. The manufacturer is maintaining the rights to the data they provide to your car, after all. And they have an army of lawyers to defend it if you try to use it for your own profit.

You can have connected nav. You can have BlueCruise. You can have Waze and Spotify and OTA updates and parking space location reminders and phone as a key and all of that. None of it requires keeping or selling your data.

 

[RickLightning]

This is a dangerous attitude. If you don't like it SPEAK UP. If you don't like it, explain over and over and over and over again to people who don't think it's a big deal why they are very, very wrong. Nothing is a foregone conclusion.

Vehicles can be connected without giving up the rights to your data. The manufacturer is maintaining the rights to the data they provide to your car, after all. And they have an army of lawyers to defend it if you try to use it for your own profit.

You can have connected nav. You can have BlueCruise. You can have Waze and Spotify and OTA updates and parking space location reminders and phone as a key and all of that. None of it requires keeping or selling your data.

No one is making you buy the vehicle. The features connectivity is well known. You can ask for and receive data agreements to review before buying.

Sure, you can make your feelings known. But the vast majority don't give a rat's behind, so you'll never win. Speak with your dollars - don't buy the vehicle.

 

[djwildstar]

Overall, I would like to see vehicle-makers improve the selectivity and granularity of privacy controls. However, if you disable sharing data from the truck, it means that your only way to view and interact with the truck's systems is from ... inside the truck using the built-in user interface.

I suppose it would be possible to build WiFi and/or Bluetooth services into the truck's platform that FordPass could access while in range ... but:

• This is a relatively large amount of work,
• Has very limited payoff (It is only useful when your phone is close to the truck), and
• This opens a whole additional can of security concerns.

 

[theUNSTABLE]

I recently discovered Ford's API for developers and I'm thinking of mocking up a proof of concept to see if I can develop my own third party app using Ford's API.

Specifically I would want to improve the experience over the FordPass app, and implement extended viewing of data. This is obviously a massive task, that will take a long time, but there are no other third party apps out there so I figured I would give it a shot.
I'm also curious if I would be able to use the API and make it more privacy focused.

I work in the industry, and have some experience so I'm not just some guy saying "I'm going to make my own app"
I don't have high expectations for myself to make something great, but I figured I would give it a shot and see if its even possible

 

[ivan256]

Overall, I would like to see vehicle-makers improve the selectivity and granularity of privacy controls. However, if you disable sharing data from the truck, it means that your only way to view and interact with the truck's systems is from ... inside the truck using the built-in user interface.

I suppose it would be possible to build WiFi and/or Bluetooth services into the truck's platform that FordPass could access while in range ... but:

• This is a relatively large amount of work,
• Has very limited payoff (It is only useful when your phone is close to the truck), and
• This opens a whole additional can of security concerns.

This really is about the definition of "share."

Providing a datapoint to enable a function is a completely different proposition to providing a datapoint that the recipient gets to keep, sell, or build into a product they own after they're done providing the function you wanted. You should, and Ford should, be able to consume the data that is necessary for providing the service without requiring you to grant them ownership or perpetual rights to the data.

There's no need to build a special communications channel. Just reasonable terms and conditions around data ownership.

 

[RickLightning]

I recently discovered Ford's API for developers and I'm thinking of mocking up a proof of concept to see if I can develop my own third party app using Ford's API.

Specifically I would want to improve the experience over the FordPass app, and implement extended viewing of data. This is obviously a massive task, that will take a long time, but there are no other third party apps out there so I figured I would give it a shot.
I'm also curious if I would be able to use the API and make it more privacy focused.

I work in the industry, and have some experience so I'm not just some guy saying "I'm going to make my own app"
I don't have high expectations for myself to make something great, but I figured I would give it a shot and see if its even possible

Just an FYI - Ford's API isn't just for anyone to use. If you hit the API, they'll notice and lock out the account of the vehicle owner whose credentials you're using. Happened repeatedly on the Mach-Es.

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