Federal credit dealer reporting requirements (new requirement?)

[EdwinT]

I do wonder sometime come March, would Feds be thinking, why do we need to give incentive to someone that has already bought his truck (Jan-Feb guys)?

Little confused by what you mean. We are currently being incentivized to buy since they postponed the requirement. I honestly don’t think I would keep the truck without the inventive. $7500 is almost 20% of my purchase. Big chunk of change that I originally did not account for. I would prob take the truck and sell it.

Sponsored

 

[TaxmanHog]

I do wonder sometime come March, would Feds be thinking, why do we need to give incentive to someone that has already bought his truck (Jan-Feb guys)?

Due to the mid tax year policy & procedure changes anticipated ~3/31/23, they need a process for all sales that have ~CLOSED~ before the cut off, and a bright line to demarc who is incentivized and rightfully able to make a claim for the whole $7500 vs an apportionment of lets say .... $3750 on and after 4/1 to 12/31 for the remainder of the tax year.

This will become clearer when the forms are redesigned for filing in the winter/spring of 2024

 

[Maxx]

Little confused by what you mean. We are currently being incentivized to buy since they postponed the requirement. I honestly don’t think I would keep the truck without the inventive. $7500 is almost 20% of my purchase. Big chunk of change that I originally did not account for. I would prob take the truck and sell it.

My understanding is half the incentive is relatively clear and the second half needs more guidance. Everyone assumes since we don't have the guidance we already are getting that second half. I am thinking since we don't have guidance, we won't (I am a glass half empty kinda guy).

Edit: I just saw TaxManHog response. Since his name is Tax Man. I take his word.

 

[EdwinT]

My understanding is half the incentive is relatively clear and the second half needs more guidance. Everyone assumes since we don't have the guidance we already are getting that second half. I am thinking since we don't have guidance, we won't (I am a glass half empty kinda guy).

Edit: I just saw TaxManHog response. Since his name is Tax Man. I take his word.

I am still a little confused at what you mean by half? Under the new law:
$3750 comes from battery minerals
$3750 comes from battery components

Both of those requirements were postponed due to guidance not being supplied. If the requirement was NOT postponed, we would be in the dark till Ford let’s us know if our truck meets either of those requirements.

The only other way to claim half of the credit is to file under the old law for the phase out period if you qualify for it. That was always a little unclear to me. I ordered before the new law was signed so I think I would’ve been able to file under the old law for the phase out amount of 50%. Is this what you mean?

 

[Maxx]

It looks like I may have misunderstood some of it. I thought the first $3750 is a matter of where the battery was put together and I thought we are covered for that (assembled in north America). I thought the confusion was over how much of the stuff in the battery comes from US and friends for the second $3750.

Frankly at this point, it really does not matter. I am going to pick up the truck tomorrow regardless (unless dealer start acting up) and let the chips fall where they may. It will be more than a year before I have to worry about this and hopefully things will be clear long before then. I ended up pulling money out of my retirement funds in 22 to meet the requirement apparently for no reason since it is delivered in 23. Hopefully in December 23 I will be less confused than I am now.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I am still a little confused at what you mean by half? Under the new law:
$3750 comes from battery minerals
$3750 comes from battery components

Both of those requirements were postponed due to guidance not being supplied. If the requirement was NOT postponed, we would be in the dark till Ford let’s us know if our truck meets either of those requirements.

The only other way to claim half of the credit is to file under the old law for the phase out period if you qualify for it. That was always a little unclear to me. I ordered before the new law was signed so I think I would’ve been able to file under the old law for the phase out amount of 50%. Is this what you mean?

IMHO the delay from IRS and DOE as to the final impact on credits is partly because of agency understaffing, the proposed legislation late last year expired on 1/3/23, but will likely be refilled when if ever Congress pulls their collective heads out of their nether regions which would delay impact, kicking the proverbial can down the road a full year or two might have positive impact for the entire year of 2023, but for the moment that IS a pipe dream.

 

[EdwinT]

IMHO the delay from IRS and DOE as to the final impact on credits is partly because of agency understaffing, the proposed legislation late last year expired on 1/3/23, but will likely be refilled when if ever Congress pulls their collective heads out of their nether regions which would delay impact, kicking the proverbial can down the road a full year or two might have positive impact for the entire year of 2023, but for the moment that IS a pipe dream.

You lost me on this one sorry lol

 

[TaxmanHog]

You lost me on this one sorry lol

Aside from my discontent with congress, this could have an impact if these bills are re-submitted and passed in the 118th session

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/9289/text

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/5020/text

 

[EdwinT]

Aside from my discontent with congress, this could have an impact if these bills are re-submitted and passed in the 118th session

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/9289/text

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/5020/text

I completely forgot about these two things wow! This would completely change everything. Would almost make me consider trading in the lightning for something else that would get the credit if all these dates are pushed back. If the Niro was purpose built with a true frunk it would be a tough call if I could get the federal credits and the $4k nj credits

So you just meant a further “positive” (for EV car buyers) impact on the tax law not a negative impact on the current law. As long as I’m still good till March that’s all I care about lol.

 

[eecyclone]

Does Ford have an official form yet? Does anyone know how the dealer supposed to report the sale to the IRS?

 

[EdwinT]

Does Ford have an official form yet? Does anyone know how the dealer supposed to report the sale to the IRS?

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...s-sellers-of-clean-vehicles.13530/post-293932


Ford now has the document that your dealer can pull up in their system!

This is a picture from a member in the 12/5 group. I showed my sales manager and he was able to find it. They give you a copy and I assume submit the same to the IRS via some submission system. I will be touching base with my dealer mid year to make sure they did. If you find out how please let us know. Also get a blank form if you can so we can post it here as a sticky to help others

 

[TaxmanHog]

The dealer or the manufacturer will report to IRS, it will be a post end of year process, like reporting all 1099/W2 information currently is, using third party reporting systems or F.I.R.E system.

https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/filing-information-returns-electronically-fire

 

[metroshot]

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...s-sellers-of-clean-vehicles.13530/post-293932


Ford now has the document that your dealer can pull up in their system!

This is a picture from a member in the 12/5 group. I showed my sales manager and he was able to find it. They give you a copy and I assume submit the same to the IRS via some submission system. I will be touching base with my dealer mid year to make sure they did. If you find out how please let us know. Also get a blank form if you can so we can post it here as a sticky to help others

Good to see this form!

Will one need a copy of this form for filing one's taxes or will it be a simple one like the current form that asks only for VIN and date of purchase ??

 

[TaxmanHog]

Good to see this form!

Will one need a copy of this form for filing one's taxes or will it be a simple one like the current form that asks only for VIN and date of purchase ??

If you are talking about purchases in tax year 2022, the established process involves the vehicle vin, date of in service, you will not need to upload the documentation during initial return filing [This spring of 2023],

BUT if a process stop occurs for 2022 tax returns, IRS might request a copy other documents, ex. sales contract, closing settlement statement, registration certificate, MCO, etc.

This new letterhead statement pertains to sales on and after 1/1/2023, affect tax year 2023, for which your return will be filed on or after 1/1/24, again it's unlikely you need to load that letter except on special request.

The mass data reporting from the MoCo, will enter the IRP database, and one year later BIG DATA analysis will occur if your return is flagged for audit post claim payment the tax examiner might request your copy should the Moco not submit it's copy to cross match with your initial claim.

 

[xwing]

Does Ford have an official form yet? Does anyone know how the dealer supposed to report the sale to the IRS?

Yes, I was at my dealer on Monday and showed them the form from this forum. I told him where to look and he found it and filled it out for me. He wasn't sure what else they needed to do. I'm not sure what to do with the form next year since I file electronically.

Sponsored