ZeusDriver
Active member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2025
- Threads
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- 34
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- Location
- East Coast, USA
- Vehicles
- 2022 Lightning
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- #1
If the upcoming Ramcharger were available when you bought your Lightning, would you still have purchased the Lightning? If so, how much more does the Lightning seem to be worth as compared to the Ramcharger?
I think I would pay $(some) additional to have the flexibility of filling up on gas. If the specs pan out, the Ramcharger will cost about the same to run on gas as the Lightning does to supercharge. ($.50 per kWh for 2.4 miles = 21 cents per mile. $3.50 per 20 miles = 17.5 cents per mile) (A rational person might say "If you want economy, just by an old truck... you will never recoup the cost of a new truck)
Back before the Volt came out, I designed and built an ultra-efficient microcar, and decided that 40 miles range was the sweet spot for overall economy, performance, etc. It avoids the weight of a larger heavy battery pack, it serves the commuting needs of 92% of US drivers, etc. (The cost of the engine and generator together was much less than the cost of the batteries alone in my little car.) I wrote up a business plan, and half convinced myself that there was a market for such a car, egged on by the X Prize competition, which required a business plan.
So I am a PHEV kinda guy, and was pleased, when the Volt came out, that they used the same logic re range as I did. I really thought the Volt would sell very very well. It didn't. Later, I bought one, and it was a really excellent car, and perfectly reliable, with the battery pack lasting longer than I would have dreamed, showing no degradation at all after 10 years and 75000 miles. (I also happen to have the batteries from my microcar, 16 years after buying them, and used them in my boat until recently.)
My microcar and the Ramcharger share the basic architecture of a simple serial PHEV: the wheels are powered only by the electric motors. In the microcar, I started the engine manually whenever required, and it would automatically shut down when the battery was topped up. The engine ran under full load, or not at all, so performed at relatively high efficiency (never idling, never operating under light load.) The Ramcharger will be far more automated, and infinitely more refined, and will have far greater range. Too much range, I think, for an economical sales price.
The Volt was incredibly complicated and the Ram will be simpler. Although the ability to combine the power from the gas engine and the electric motors makes some sense, in practice, the Volt ran best under electricity alone (although the transition was very very smoothly handled: most passengers could not tell when the engine started up when the battery range was used up). I would happily pay $15,000 less for a basic Ram with much shorter electric range: 50 miles would be fine with me.
The Volt was my first car that I expected to do well but was a sales dud. The Lightning is my second vehicle that I expected to do well but was a sales dud. (My 1976 Honda accord, on the other hand, was a great car that I loved, and it sold like hotcakes, with many dealers selling them for over retail. I think the Ramcharger will do well, but clearly I am not a good judge of the market. (Partly, my thinking is clouded by liking weird cars -- I've had a few Citroens, and other oddities.)
A PHEV Maverick seems like a no brainer to me. I'd vastly prefer that to my Lightning, if I had not become accustomed to the Lightnings cushiness: I'm feeling like an old fart driving his Cadillac. I have even toyed with the idea of buying another Volt and converting it into a small pickup... but I have other projects going on and am way too old for such shenanigans.
What are your thoughts on the Ramcharger? Would you want to pay less, but get lower range? What if you were a working stiff, making $50,000 -- would a $30,000 Ramcharger with 40 miles on electricity, smaller size (Maverick sized) be appealing? (Using the Ramcharger architecture, the engine cost can be balanced out by a much smaller battery pack. A smaller battery pack is likely to reduce acceleration and top speed... but aren't we going overboard with that nowadays? I've owned several air cooled VWs: 72 mph top speed.)
I think I would pay $(some) additional to have the flexibility of filling up on gas. If the specs pan out, the Ramcharger will cost about the same to run on gas as the Lightning does to supercharge. ($.50 per kWh for 2.4 miles = 21 cents per mile. $3.50 per 20 miles = 17.5 cents per mile) (A rational person might say "If you want economy, just by an old truck... you will never recoup the cost of a new truck)
Back before the Volt came out, I designed and built an ultra-efficient microcar, and decided that 40 miles range was the sweet spot for overall economy, performance, etc. It avoids the weight of a larger heavy battery pack, it serves the commuting needs of 92% of US drivers, etc. (The cost of the engine and generator together was much less than the cost of the batteries alone in my little car.) I wrote up a business plan, and half convinced myself that there was a market for such a car, egged on by the X Prize competition, which required a business plan.
So I am a PHEV kinda guy, and was pleased, when the Volt came out, that they used the same logic re range as I did. I really thought the Volt would sell very very well. It didn't. Later, I bought one, and it was a really excellent car, and perfectly reliable, with the battery pack lasting longer than I would have dreamed, showing no degradation at all after 10 years and 75000 miles. (I also happen to have the batteries from my microcar, 16 years after buying them, and used them in my boat until recently.)
My microcar and the Ramcharger share the basic architecture of a simple serial PHEV: the wheels are powered only by the electric motors. In the microcar, I started the engine manually whenever required, and it would automatically shut down when the battery was topped up. The engine ran under full load, or not at all, so performed at relatively high efficiency (never idling, never operating under light load.) The Ramcharger will be far more automated, and infinitely more refined, and will have far greater range. Too much range, I think, for an economical sales price.
The Volt was incredibly complicated and the Ram will be simpler. Although the ability to combine the power from the gas engine and the electric motors makes some sense, in practice, the Volt ran best under electricity alone (although the transition was very very smoothly handled: most passengers could not tell when the engine started up when the battery range was used up). I would happily pay $15,000 less for a basic Ram with much shorter electric range: 50 miles would be fine with me.
The Volt was my first car that I expected to do well but was a sales dud. The Lightning is my second vehicle that I expected to do well but was a sales dud. (My 1976 Honda accord, on the other hand, was a great car that I loved, and it sold like hotcakes, with many dealers selling them for over retail. I think the Ramcharger will do well, but clearly I am not a good judge of the market. (Partly, my thinking is clouded by liking weird cars -- I've had a few Citroens, and other oddities.)
A PHEV Maverick seems like a no brainer to me. I'd vastly prefer that to my Lightning, if I had not become accustomed to the Lightnings cushiness: I'm feeling like an old fart driving his Cadillac. I have even toyed with the idea of buying another Volt and converting it into a small pickup... but I have other projects going on and am way too old for such shenanigans.
What are your thoughts on the Ramcharger? Would you want to pay less, but get lower range? What if you were a working stiff, making $50,000 -- would a $30,000 Ramcharger with 40 miles on electricity, smaller size (Maverick sized) be appealing? (Using the Ramcharger architecture, the engine cost can be balanced out by a much smaller battery pack. A smaller battery pack is likely to reduce acceleration and top speed... but aren't we going overboard with that nowadays? I've owned several air cooled VWs: 72 mph top speed.)
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