Trading in our 2022 Lariat ER for a Rivian R1S Dual Motor Max Pack

[vandy1981]

We were among the first people to have the privilege to purchase a Lightning when we took delivery of a Lariat ER in June 2022. We traded in a Ram 1500 Platinum and the Lightning outperformed the Ram on almost every metric and the Lightning is the best truck we've ever owned, except.....

My partner leases hunting land about 120 miles from our home and we need tow a travel trailer (1.1 mi/kWh, documented here) and side-by-side (1.3 mi/kWh) there on a regular basis. We also were not able to make it there and back without charging in cold weather. We could make the range limitations work if the charging situation along that route was better, but it's effectively gotten worse since we bought the Lightning due to congestion and unreliability and there's no hope for improvement in the near future. We decided that we were going to sell the Lightning for that reason during the summer. We're also sick of dealing with a full-size truck in the city and were planning on trading it in for a smaller SUV or truck if we got rid of the Lightning. We initially looked into a Grand Cherokee PHEV, but the payload capacity was too limited for our trailer's tongue weight. We then looked into an Expedition, but decided to delay plans when we heard that the Rivian Max Packs would go on sale this fall.

We've carried a price-protected preorder for the R1T Max Pack since 1/2022, but switched to an R1S Performance Dual Motor Max Pack in early October. An R1S became available on Wednesday and should be ready for pickup this week.

I'm starting this this thread to share my experience trading in the Lightning and towing with the R1S. One thing I can tell you already is that the trade-in values of the Lightning are pretty terrible. We put 17,000 miles on it and are going to be lucky to get $55,000 unless we decide to list it on the private market.

I'm not sure if anyone cares, but I'll update the thread to share our experience (and hopefully not disappointment) when we move over to the R1S from the Lightning.

Update 10/24/23: Pickup for the R1S is tomorrow (10/25) and these are my observations so far:

-I ordered the R1S on 10/18 evening and we will be picking it up tomorrow (10/25) afternoon. That's less than 7 days, even though it had to be shipped from Normal, IL. The Lightning took about 25 days for delivery once it was marked as 'built.' Logistics were a cluster in June 2022 and the Lightning shipped by rail, so the situations aren't really comparable.
-Communication from Rivian has been consistently good, especially over the last week. My Rivian Guide provided substantive answers to all of my questions within 1 business day over the last month or two and I've been able to text my local service center with questions as well. Compare this to the Ford dealer where I had no dealer-initiated communication from the time I ordered the Lightning to when the truck was delivered to the dealership. The Ford website was sometimes helpful for tracking the order, but when I reached out to the dealer, they were generally uninformed and uninterested in answering reasonable questions. Also, it seemed like every time I called the previous salesperson had left the dealership and I had to talk to a brand new person.
-We've been able to take care of pretty much everything online including payment, registration, etc., online. We were provided deadlines, but it's been low stress with zero pressure from Rivian. I had to do everything in person at the Ford dealer and had to sit through a painful 45 minute meeting with the finance person even though we weren't financing the vehicle. I was also offered an oil change subscription during that meeting, LOL.
-I was provided reasonable flexibility (about a 7-day period) for pick up of the Rivian when it hit the Service Center. My Ford dealer gave me 24 hours to pick up the Lightning after it hit their lot and threatened to sell the truck to someone else if I didn't comply. This was after zero dealer communication for months. I needed at least a day to arrange the trade-in and things were expecially complicated because my partner was at home quarantined with covid.
-The Rivian trade in offer was much lower than competitors like Carmax and their offer is non-negotiable. I was at least able to work with the Ford dealer on the trade in value for the Lightning trade in and they came up off of their initial offer which was nice.
-There is no negotiation with the price of the Rivian and in June 2022 there was no room for negotiation around the price of the Lightning. I actually prefer Rivian's no-haggle structure, but would probably be able to negotiate on the sales price if I was in the market for a Lightning today.

Updated 10/26/23 (#1). We picked up the R1S and sold the Lightning yesterday. We didn't want to deal with the hassle of private sale, so only contacted dealers and the Carmax equivalents. We sold the truck to Carmax, but gave the Ford dealer a chance to beat their offer. The Nissan dealer didn't even want to make an offer after they appraised the truck.

Specs for the truck were 2022 Lariat ER, Carbonized Gray, Max Tow, Power Tonneau, LineX bedliner, 16,600 miles. There were no accidents or major cosmetic issues, the title was clean and we owned the vehicle outright.

Rivian	48310
Vroom	49941
Carmax	54000
Driveway	40000
Carvana	47700
Kelly Blue Book Instant Cash Offer	50169
Ford Dealer #1	54000
Ford Dealer #2	47000
Nissan Dealer	Not interested in buying

Update 10/26/23 (#2). We're averaging about 2.5 miles/kwh at 77 mph on a 70 degree day in dry conditions on a NW route with a 529 foot increase in elevation and a 10 MPH NE tail wind.

The payload capacity on the R1S is pretty good, even compared to the Lightning. 1779 pounds for the R1s vs. 1697 for the Lightning Lariat ER.

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[F150ROD]

Good luck with the R1S. I believe it’s the best of both worlds.

Yeah, the trade in value for Lightnings is miserable. If you financed you have to come up with the difference or eat the difference on a lease.

Good luck, let us know how the trade in process goes!

 

[Maquis]

Since your main reason for the move was because you can’t make it there and back towing the trailer on a charge, I’m interested in how you think the numbers will work out with the R1S.
I’m not casting doubt, just genuinely interested.

 

[Henry Ford]

I'm curious too. Am I correct is assuming you cannot charge while at the hunting property? So you need 240 miles of range towing a trailer?

Lightning: 240 miles÷131 kWh=1.8 kWh/m. Not happening.

Rivian Max Pack: 240÷180=1.3 kWh/m. Maybe? That's zero reserve.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Good luck, I'd say keep the mid trip charging plans alive for the Rivian.

My situation is a 220 mile round trip and a 1.1 MPK towing, requires a mid trip charging event before reaching the race track to be able to turn around to home bound charging station, ironically the same station up & down trip, arriving home on electronic fumes.

 

[Maxx]

We've carried a price-protected preorder for the R1T Max Pack since 1/2022, but switched to an R1S Performance Dual Motor Max Pack in early October. An R1S became available on Wednesday and should be ready for pickup this week.

I still have a reservation for R1S quad with price protection and curious, how did that transfer to dual motor? Did they reduce the same amount in dual motor that you had in R1T?

Please come back and tell us what you think about the change after you put a few miles in R1S. What you like and what you don’t about the change. Has the phantom drain on Rivian has improved? Is it noisier than Lightning on the highway? Is it significantly more efficient at 80 mph? …..

 

[vandy1981]

I still have a reservation for R1S quad with price protection and curious, how did that transfer to dual motor? Did they reduce the same amount in dual motor that you had in R1T?

Please come back and tell us what you think about the change after you put a few miles in R1S. What you like and what you don’t about the change. Has the phantom drain on Rivian has improved? Is it noisier than Lightning on the highway? Is it significantly more efficient at 80 mph? …..

I can guarantee that the R1S will be noisier than the Lightning.

I can't remember exactly how the pricing worked on the R1T, but this is what we're paying for the R1S. One interesting thing is the standard DM and performance DM were priced the same when I switched to the R1s, but there was a $6000 difference between the two on the R1T.

 

[Howard_Scott_Warshaw]

I'm sticking with the Lightning. I was initially interested in the Rivian. My friend got one and likes it a lot, but for the same/more $$ you get less truck IMO. Both are solid trucks, I'm not trying to state otherwise, but my preference is the F150. For someone's first truck, the Rivian seems more manageable.

 

[vandy1981]

Good luck, I'd say keep the mid trip charging plans alive for the Rivian.

Want to preface this by saying there is zero real-world info about the Rivian Max Pack out there right now so we are in uncharted territory. We think the Max Pack has 149 kWh usable, but that's it.

We shouldn't need to charge the R1S while towing the trailer to the hunting land during warm weather, but are assuming we'll need to cold weather. With current infrastructure we need to charge to almost 100% to have any chance of making it in cold weather with the Lightning.

The other added benefit of the Rivian is that we can get about 3 kW from the 30A 120V RV plug at the camp vs the Lightning that could only draw 1.5kW. In cold weather, 1.5 kW isn't even enough to condition the battery.

 

[Maxx]

Want to preface this by saying there is zero real-world info about the Rivian Max Pack out there right now so we are in uncharted territory. We think the Max Pack has 149 kWh usable, but that's it.

We shouldn't need to charge the R1S while towing the trailer to the hunting land during warm weather, but are assuming we'll need to cold weather. With current infrastructure we need to charge to almost 100% to have any chance of making it in cold weather with the Lightning.

The other added benefit of the Rivian is that we can get about 3 kW from the 30A 120V RV plug at the camp vs the Lightning that could only draw 1.5kW. In cold weather, 1.5 kW isn't even enough to condition the battery.

Dual motor must be more efficient than quad. But aerodynamic advantage of Rivian to Lightning should go out the door if you are pulling something boxy behind you. So the amount of energy you are carrying and travel conditions (headwind, temp, …) becomes very important if you are at the edge of your range. I guess your speed will be the thing you have most control over. Looking forward to see how the trip goes with your new ride.

 

[mme_and_lightning]

When you receive the R1S, pull the trailer, anywhere, as soon as you can. You have 7 days to return the Rivian if you do not get the range you want.

I like the Rivian. IMHO it's a good choice for a smaller (not small) pickup.

 

[RaptorEV]

Dude, I hope your experience with the Rivian is a good one. I test drove an R1T with 8K miles on it, and that thing was falling apart. I would be very concerned about durability, repairs, and maintenance. In fact, that test drive was important for me because I then bought a new Lexus GX with no regret.

 

[Count Orlok]

I really like my R1S and I'm glad I switched my R1T rez to the S and kept my Powerboost for truck things. I've had my early VIN 2022 R1S almost a year now and other than the time a guy in a 20 year old GMC truck ran a red light and hit it (9 weeks total in the collision center 2.5 hours away) it has been almost flawless.

I still do most of my towing with the '21 F-150h. In theory my Lightning is supposed to be here in a week (to replace the '21). My wife wants me to keep the Powerboost until I decide if I like the Lightning.

I'll be curious to learn how your towing with the S compares.

 

[Henry Ford]

Want to preface this by saying there is zero real-world info about the Rivian Max Pack out there right now so we are in uncharted territory. We think the Max Pack has 149 kWh usable, but that's it.

Take @mme_and_lightning advice and pull your trailer during the return period.

If your reason for buying the Rivian is to make a 240 mile trip without charging while pulling a trailer I think you will be disappointed.

The math was questionable when I thought the Max Pack was 180 kWh. If it's 149 kWh the math is only slightly better than a Lightning. You'd need to get 1.6 mpkWh to make the trip with zero reserve in the Rivian.

You already know you get 1.1 mpkWh towing with a Lightning. You might get a slight aero advantage in the Rivian due to the better CoD and the roof but the aero doesn't change on the travel trailer and that's your main issue as far as I can tell.

I'm not saying don't do it. I think it's a sweet vehicle. Just be prepared for what the Rivian is capable of and what it's not.

 

[vandy1981]

If your reason for buying the Rivian is to make a 240 mile trip without charging while pulling a trailer I think you will be disappointed.

We definitely are not expecting that and are also switching because we wanted something smaller that we can sleep in if needed.

We get 1.1 mi/kWh with our current trailer in warm weather. Assuming 149 kWh usable (edit: the usable capacity might be lower), we should get at least 150 miles. And that's assuming no difference in drivetrain efficiency between the Lightning and Rivian.

Those extra 20-25 miles over the Lightning are critical for us and are the difference between needing a gas vehicle or getting by with an electric vehicle.

I'll be sure to report all the joy and misery of the switch.

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