Unexpectedly low range

[Heliian]

level 1 at home.

This is your problem, it doesn't precondition the battery, the battery only keeps warm/preconditions when plugged in to level 2.

I plug in every night in the winter when the temp is below 5 deg c just to keep the battery warm and ready.

You need level 2 for the cold and just plain efficiency.

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[LightningShow]

Perhaps you're missing the point. Preconditioning, with a departure time, with the truck plugged in, makes sense if you have a decent drive coming up. If you're only driving 5 miles, it would cost more than you gain.

When using 110v, the house cannot supply enough power to precondition, and the remote start also uses more power than the house can provide, so your battery goes down in charge level.

When remote starting unplugged, your battery also goes down.

Hope that helps.

So, the only time pre-conditioning is worthwhile is if you have to drive nearly the entire range of the battery?

 

[RickLightning]

So, the only time pre-conditioning is worthwhile is if you have to drive nearly the entire range of the battery?

Don't know who said that. I believe that it was suggested that about 20 or 25 miles might be the "breakeven point".

It's pretty commonsense if you think about it. You have a resistance heater that takes a lot of energy to get hot, heating up fluid, that is then going through a massive battery trying to bring it up to like 59 degrees. Haven't timed mine in a winter, but in the Mach-E an 80 minute period was clocked by me, with the last 15 warming the cabin.

That electricity cost has to be balanced against just doing a remote start, and driving after the cabin is warmed up.

Scenarios:

1) Precondition plugged in and drive to work (and then home again if no charger at work). Charge to the same level.

2) Remote start plugged in and drive to work (and then home again if no charger at work). Charge to the same level.

Which uses more electricity in total, assuming you drive the exact same, in the exact same weather conditions?

 

[Maquis]

So, the only time pre-conditioning is worthwhile is if you have to drive nearly the entire range of the battery?

IMO, yes.
Some will argue that it’s good for long-term battery health, but I’m not convinced it’s enough to matter, at least in my climate.

 

[Maquis]

Don't know who said that. I believe that it was suggested that about 20 or 25 miles might be the "breakeven point".

I don’t think there is a break-even point. Preconditioning will always use at least a bit more energy than not, due to conversion losses.
I only precondition if I need to maximize range for a road trip.

 

[RickLightning]

I do precondition. That picture was taken right after. Unfortunately right now all I have is level 1 at home. Hopefully this weekend I'll get the Tesla charger installed so I have level 2. If anyone is wondering, yes it does precondition on level 1 if you tell it to precondition when unplugged.

This is your problem, it doesn't precondition the battery, the battery only keeps warm/preconditions when plugged in to level 2.

I plug in every night in the winter when the temp is below 5 deg c just to keep the battery warm and ready.

You need level 2 for the cold and just plain efficiency.

Your issue, @Computermedic78, is that you don't have a 240v charger installed. No, the battery doesn't precondition with a 110v level 1 charger. It can't. There isn't enough power supplied. Does it warm slightly? Sure. But if you put an OBD reader in and watched with CarScanner, you'd see it doesn't get anywhere near the same temperature (assuming it's cold out, if it's 50 degrees that's irrelevant).

With preconditioning on 240v, the battery is warmed, then the cabin is warmed, and you leave with full power available and get much higher efficiency.

 

[Heliian]

my climate

This is the key, if it's below 0c/32f you'll see the benefit.

My kwh/100km is reduced in the cold and I see the advantage on my 25km commute, it's about 20% more efficient when the battery is warmed.

 

[RickLightning]

I don’t think there is a break-even point. Preconditioning will always use at least a bit more energy than not, due to conversion losses.
I only precondition if I need to maximize range for a road trip.

If it's 10 degrees outside, and my truck is sitting in that, after a remote start, I won't see anywhere near full capability of my power for some time. If I preconditioned, I would see it.

So, breakeven is not just financial, it's capability.

Yes, if you're driving 5 miles to work at 35mph, you probably don't care. But if you're getting on the highway at 70mph and need the capability of closer to 100% power, you might.

 

[LightningShow]

If it's 10 degrees outside, and my truck is sitting in that, after a remote start, I won't see anywhere near full capability of my power for some time. If I preconditioned, I would see it.

So, breakeven is not just financial, it's capability.

Yes, if you're driving 5 miles to work at 35mph, you probably don't care. But if you're getting on the highway at 70mph and need the capability of closer to 100% power, you might.

I agree with this but I still haven't seen any decent analysis on financial breakeven of pre-conditioning. I've just been relying on people saying it's "good". It's not obvious to me why it would be better financially (in a meaningful way). If you want to max out your range for a long trip or don't like having restricted power then it makes sense. I've only ever made the effort to pre-condition prior to long trips or when it will be very cold (<20F) because of Ford's very crappy software flexibility. If there was some good evidence that long term battery health is improved by preconditioning above 20F then I think that's a good financial case on its own, assuming it isn't 1% improvement in degradation over 5 years or something similarly marginal.

 

[RickLightning]

I believe there is no gain in long term battery health. When plugged in, the battery will pull juice to warm if it needs to, which is preserving long term battery health IMO.

I will never precondition except before a trip at this point.

 

[Jarratt]

Ford will use regen when hitting the brake pedal until you are mashing the brakes to the point you need more stopping power than regen can handle. There is little to no difference between what 1PD does and what moderate braking manually will do.

FWIW, I took the suggestion of someone here months ago to use the Sport mode not to get more zip (though that is fun), but to increase regen. It's great, highly recommend.

 

[Grease Lightning]

Your issue, @Computermedic78, is that you don't have a 240v charger installed. No, the battery doesn't precondition with a 110v level 1 charger. It can't. There isn't enough power supplied. Does it warm slightly? Sure. But if you put an OBD reader in and watched with CarScanner, you'd see it doesn't get anywhere near the same temperature (assuming it's cold out, if it's 50 degrees that's irrelevant).

With preconditioning on 240v, the battery is warmed, then the cabin is warmed, and you leave with full power available and get much higher efficiency.

Rick is speaking the truth and even the 240v element doesn’t mean you are no using some battery to condition. My Lightning currently is charged on a 16 amp 240v plug. If the battery is extra cold, I will sometimes see the percentage drop a point as the energy draw for the minute exceeds the 3,840 max watts my plug can provide during the session.

 

[Maquis]

If it's 10 degrees outside, and my truck is sitting in that, after a remote start, I won't see anywhere near full capability of my power for some time. If I preconditioned, I would see it.

So, breakeven is not just financial, it's capability.

Yes, if you're driving 5 miles to work at 35mph, you probably don't care. But if you're getting on the highway at 70mph and need the capability of closer to 100% power, you might.

Agree with that - I was only looking at the financial side.

 

[Computermedic78]

When I tell the I dash nav I'm going a charger it conditions the battery, yes? Then the act of using a DCFC will warm the battery, yes? So when leaving the charger I can expect the battery to be conditioned ans warm. So why would I get 1.3 after leaving the charger

 

[Zprime29]

When I tell the I dash nav I'm going a charger it conditions the battery, yes? Then the act of using a DCFC will warm the battery, yes? So when leaving the charger I can expect the battery to be conditioned ans warm. So why would I get 1.3 after leaving the charger

Beginning to feel like you are trolling. You've got lots of anecdotal evidence to show what the truck is capable of in a variety of climates. People who have dug into the depths of the OBDII measurements have told you how the truck behaves for various conditioning modes. If you still think your truck is not working right then take it to your dealership. If nothing is wrong with the truck, then the truck (and possibly EV's in general) are not a good fit you. That's what is so great about having options and choices. Find something that fits you.

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