Charging Speeds at Home

[Maquis]

Use an ammeter inside the FCSP (I didn’t call it a charger) and measure amps in and amps out. Amps out are always less for my FCSP. Then look at Ford Pass Charge History and Ford Pass Charge Station Insights. The amps out of the FCSP times measured voltage will be close to FP Charge Station Insights power and greater than the corresponding power from Charge History which I take as power absorbed by the battery. No reasonable way to verify that.
Just my observations.

I’m surprised that you saw a measurable difference between in and out of the EVSE. The difference should be just what’s needed to power the electronics, which I’d expect to be very low, probably less than 1A. Maybe it needs more than I expect?

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[Tony Burgh]

I’m surprised that you saw a measurable difference between in and out of the EVSE. The difference should be just what’s needed to power the electronics, which I’d expect to be very low, probably less than 1A. Maybe it needs more than I expect?

If you can, please check this out. If you do not see an amperage drop then it could indicate a problem on my end. While I normally do my own electrical work, but since Ford was paying, I hired a licensed electrician. I’ve been using it for around 3 years now.

 

[bmwhitetx]

Use an ammeter inside the FCSP (I didn’t call it a charger) and measure amps in and amps out. Amps out are always less for my FCSP. Then look at Ford Pass Charge History and Ford Pass Charge Station Insights. The amps out of the FCSP times measured voltage will be close to FP Charge Station Insights power and greater than the corresponding power from Charge History which I take as power absorbed by the battery. No reasonable way to verify that.
Just my observations.

Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the suggestion that the FSCP was the source of the efficiency loss. If you follow the main wires, they come in the unit, through a relay and back out the charge cord. There are no SCRs, power transistors, etc that change or limit current.

I agree you should see some difference in and out of the EVSE. The EVSE itself requires power so it takes some incoming current for its own use. And indeed some EVSE‘s may have more internal power use than others.

But the FCSP has an ammeter probe on the output wire so it's not measuring it's own internal power use when reporting it's output. It's reporting true output to the truck. Here is a drawing of it's internals. I circled the ammeter probe on the output wire. The two gray boxes in the upper left are the relays/contactors that engage when the truck requests power. It's basically a straight-through connection. The large Red and Black are incoming from your panel. They are routed through the relays and out the charge cord on Blue and Brown. Internal power is tapped off before the relays. The small red and blacks are the DC cables for the Home Integration System.

Some folks have a means to measure power at the main panel and you will notice additional losses there. These include voltage drop from the breaker to the FCSP (especially for long runs) and the power the FCSP is using.

 

[bmwhitetx]

If you can, please check this out. If you do not see an amperage drop then it could indicate a problem on my end. While I normally do my own electrical work, but since Ford was paying, I hired a licensed electrician. I’ve been using it for around 3 years now.

You might check that the lugs (especially on the the incoming wires) are nice and snug and not loose. Spec is 35 In/Lbs (4 Nm). That would only cause a voltage drop and not a current drop though.

Also make sure you are measuring the same leg. Black vs. Brown or Red vs. Blue. The legs should be balanced (there is a ground fault sensor right above the ammeter probe that would trip if they weren't) but you never know. I agree with @Maquis - you should see only about 1 amp difference or so to account for the internal usage.

 

[MidAtlanticLightningClub]

The reason the Lightning mobile charger is set to 30 amps max is so you can use it plugged into your Pro Power 240 volt/30 amp outlet to charge other EVs, without exceeding the 30 amp limit of the truck outlet.

Fun Fact:

The Ford Mobile Charge Cord comes in two versions. The one that came with / can be purchased for the Mustang Mach E is a 32A charger (EVSE actually) made by Webasto.

Ford realized folks might want to use the ProPower Onboard to charge other EVs, so they had Webasto limit a new version to 30A peak. That way it doesn't trip the 30A circuit breaker (which is 30A continuous unlike most 30A breakers in homes). The Ford Mobile Charge Cord that came with / can be purchased for the Lightning is a 30A charger.

Stupid fun fact:
You can use the Pro Power Onboard to charge a Lightning off itself:

 

[MidAtlanticLightningClub]

I’m surprised that you saw a measurable difference between in and out of the EVSE. The difference should be just what’s needed to power the electronics, which I’d expect to be very low, probably less than 1A. Maybe it needs more than I expect?

On most EVSEs the difference between the power into the EVSE and that delivered to the truck is usually 8-10%. It is highest at really low amperage (<20) and really high amperage (>60).

 

[bmwhitetx]

On most EVSEs the difference between the power into the EVSE and that delivered to the truck is usually 8-10%. It is highest at really low amperage (<20) and really high amperage (>60).

This is not quite right. The difference we speak of is the AC power out of the EVSE (not in) and the DC power into the battery. See my post above. The loss is the truck's onboard charger (and charge cord losses). Both can be related to amp draw. The EVSE reports its power output based on the power being delivered to its charge cord.

 

[ScottC]

I concur with the experience of the OP with my mobile charger. 6.6kW is what my 24 ER Flash 133kW battery lightning (and app fwiw) state the vehicle is receiving. That translates to around 13.5 miles per hour of charging (until you reach 80-90% where the kW drops down).

There are half a dozen threads around charging speeds and most of the conventional wisdom is to not pay attention to miles, however IMO it is a reasonable assessment of how fast the charge is going. FWIW over 9yrs of charging Teslas with their mobile charger 32Amp was the usual amperage the cars showed incoming, the miles were more in the 23-25mph for a 100kW battery. What i get out of that is that the F150's internal use of the voltage coming in is not as efficiently charging the battery as a Tesla etc. Is what it is so i'm just recalibrating my expectations. Perhaps OP is thinking the same.

And despite all my Tesla talk above, I so much think the F150 is a superior auto. It's sturdy, well-built and not stupidly over-teched out. Love it.

I have solar / battery and so i think i'm going to look at a 48Volt 3rd party charger to max out what i can get during daylight hours. Any recent recommends there? I'm sure that's another half dozen threads, but this group seems the most current.

Thanks.

 

[flyct]

I concur with the experience of the OP with my mobile charger. 6.6kW is what my 24 ER Flash 133kW battery lightning (and app fwiw) state the vehicle is receiving. That translates to around 13.5 miles per hour of charging (until you reach 80-90% where the kW drops down).

There are half a dozen threads around charging speeds and most of the conventional wisdom is to not pay attention to miles, however IMO it is a reasonable assessment of how fast the charge is going. FWIW over 9yrs of charging Teslas with their mobile charger 32Amp was the usual amperage the cars showed incoming, the miles were more in the 23-25mph for a 100kW battery. What i get out of that is that the F150's internal use of the voltage coming in is not as efficiently charging the battery as a Tesla etc. Is what it is so i'm just recalibrating my expectations.

Thanks.

The difference between the Tesla and Lightning miles of charge per hour is due to efficiency on the road, not due to efficiency accepting a charge.

I own both, Tesla and Lightning.

32 amps charging produces the same 7.6 kWs delivered to each vehicle batteries. After conversion loss both batteries take in about 6.9 kws.

My Tesla gets about 4 miles per kWh on the road and Lightning gets about 2.1 miles per kWh On the road.

So for each hour of charge my;
Tesla adds 27 miles for each hour of charge (6.9 x 4 = 27.4)
Lightning adds 14.5 miles for each hour of charge (6.9 x 2.1 = 14.49)

 

[ScottC]

I buy that. I recall my last Tesla (X) was about 3.1kW/M. Thanks for the reset on that.

 

[RickLightning]

Fun Fact:

The Ford Mobile Charge Cord comes in two versions. The one that came with / can be purchased for the Mustang Mach E is a 32A charger (EVSE actually) made by Webasto.

Ford realized folks might want to use the ProPower Onboard to charge other EVs, so they had Webasto limit a new version to 30A peak. That way it doesn't trip the 30A circuit breaker (which is 30A continuous unlike most 30A breakers in homes). The Ford Mobile Charge Cord that came with / can be purchased for the Lightning is a 32A charger.

Stupid fun fact:
You can use the Pro Power Onboard to charge a Lightning off itself:

Almost correct. The one that comes with the Lightning is 30amps, not 32 (your last sentence).

In fact, the charger is identical, all that is different is the pigtail. I own both.

 

[Maquis]

On most EVSEs the difference between the power into the EVSE and that delivered to the truck is usually 8-10%. It is highest at really low amperage (<20) and really high amperage (>60).

You’re confusing power delivered to the truck and power delivered to the battery.

 

[MidAtlanticLightningClub]

Almost correct. The one that comes with the Lightning is 30amps, not 32 (your last sentence).

In fact, the charger is identical, all that is different is the pigtail. I own both.

Fixed. I missed changing that after the copy and paste.

 

[Firn]

I just had a 50 amp RV hookup installed at my house. I plugged in my Ford charging cable and it reached a maximum of 6.6 kw/hour. Is that the fastest one can charge with the standard Ford charging cable? Thanks.

FWIW you should not rely on the mobile charger cord for long term daily use.

 

[flyct]

FWIW you should not rely on the mobile charger cord for long term daily use.

Good advice. Reliability with the Ford Mobile EVSE has been reported by many as not robust.

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