Charging While Driving Works w/ Gas Generator in Bed (Range Extending for F-150 Lightning)

[Scorpio3d]

Which part exactly DO you understand? B/c this is the only part you need to understand: "Any energy retrieved from a wheel attachment will first have to be created by another source (the current Lightning motors and battery in this case)" That's all you need to understand and the physics law it comes from is "Conservation of Energy" .

The Lightning already does the absolute best job of recovering energy that you can ever hope for with regen braking via it's permanent magnet motors. Any recovery you would do in any other way would just be a less efficient way of regen braking.

We science nerds aren't laughing at you b/c this is not the first time we've heard this, not even close. The best way to explain why it will NEVER work is that harvesting energy in ANY way will hurt the efficiency of the vehicle in a net loss amount. This is why EVERY single perpetual motion machine you see on the internet is FAKE. It sucks, but it's true, Energy is Conserved, no matter how much you believe it may not be.

I generally understand how things work or can figure it out. I don’t care if people laugh with me or at me or don’t laugh at all. I have always been one to think outside of the box and it would seem you are as well. The thing about science is it’s mostly theory and when new information or a new way of thinking is presented and proven then the science changes!
E =MC squared has only been around since Einstein came up with the theory around 120 years ago.
They used to think everything orbited around the Earth, they used to think the world was flat(although that has made a resurgence lately). So maybe thinking outside of the box is a good thing!-nothing is possible until it is.

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[Traconesu]

SUPER COOL!!

Seriously, I'm astounded Ford has not patented a charging "trailer" connector that would allow the truck to charge from an external source. If one could rent a generator, or use one on your trailer, it would go a LONG ways towards alleviating range anxiety.


For the interested, with an efficiency of around 2.0mi/kwh at 70mph, and 10.5kw charging (my charging rate with my 48a charger)

Power draw at 70 mph without charger

• Efficiency: 2.0 mi/kWh
• Energy use: 70÷2.0=35 kW70 \div 2.0 = 35 \, \text{kW}70÷2.0=35kW

Net battery drain with charger

• Charger output: 10.5 kW
• Net battery draw: 35−10.5=24.5 kW35 - 10.5 = 24.5 \, \text{kW}35−10.5=24.5kW

Effective battery efficiency

• 70÷24.5≈2.86 mi/kWh (battery-derived)70 \div 24.5 \approx 2.86 \, \text{mi/kWh (battery-derived)}70÷24.5≈2.86mi/kWh (battery-derived)

New range

• Battery capacity: 131 kWh
• Range: 131×2.86≈374 miles131 \times 2.86 \approx 374 \, \text{miles}131×2.86≈374miles

Result: Range improves from ~262 mi to ~374 mi → about +112 miles extra range.

If towing, and getting an efficiency of say 1.0 and charging at 19kw (~80a charger).

Power draw at 70 mph towing

• 1.0 mi/kWh → 70 kW draw

Net battery drain with charger
70−19=51 kW70 - 19 = 51 \, \text{kW}70−19=51kW
Effective battery efficiency
70÷51≈1.37 mi/kWh (battery-derived)70 \div 51 \approx 1.37 \, \text{mi/kWh (battery-derived)}70÷51≈1.37mi/kWh (battery-derived)
New range
131×1.37≈179 miles131 \times 1.37 \approx 179 \, \text{miles}131×1.37≈179miles

Result while towing:

• Without charger: ~131 miles range
• With 19 kW charging while driving: ~179 miles range
• Gain: +48 miles

And since chat GPT was being so handy, it made a chart of towing range gain with various charger inputs.

Charging at 19.2 kw would require a very large generator that had at least a 20 kw run output. My ford 80 amp charger never charges at the full 19.2 kwh but.closer to 17 kwh output.

 

[Traconesu]

If this solution can be sold- I'm 100% onboard. The range problem is the biggest issue with this truck and if there is a way to get 50-80% more range with the use of a generator I'm willing to pay for it.

As a lightning owner who purchased my lightning to get away from the use of gasoline this concept of using a generator to charge my lightning doesn't make as much sense as just purchasing a hybrid that utilizes a HV battery to extend its range.

 

[El Duderino]

As a lightning owner who purchased my lightning to get away from the use of gasoline this concept of using a generator to charge my lightning doesn't make as much sense as just purchasing a hybrid that utilizes a HV battery to extend its range.

Ramcharger isn't sold/available to the public yet..

 

[Traconesu]

Ramcharger isn't sold/available to the public yet..

I'm sorry I didn't mention anything about a ram charger. I'm not even sure what that is. Does it have anything to do with the lightning. What is a ram charger?

 

[Dave Glover]

How do you get by the problem of putting the truck into drive with something plugged into the charge port? My 23 ER will not let me put it into drive with anything plugged in the charge port. The door can be open but as soon as you plug something in will no longer go into drive. So how do you get around that?

 

[PJnc284]

From the sounds of it, they're intercepting the CAN signal telling the truck something is plugged in. Way above my paygrade.

 

[ZSC100]

I'm sorry I didn't mention anything about a ram charger. I'm not even sure what that is. Does it have anything to do with the lightning. What is a ram charger?

Ram charger is a series hybrid truck that has been hyped up by RAM for a few years now, but keeps getting delayed.

You said, "A Hybrid that uses a battery to extend its range", that makes no sense. Hybrids in the traditional definition do not work this way. Hybrids utilize small batteries to gain efficiency by taking advantage of regenerative braking and acceleration. Additionally plug-in hybrids, again, do not work this way In a general sense. You would never use a battery to extend the range of a vehicle with a ICE. It's always the other way around.

It is great that you bought a lightning to get away from gasoline and if your use case never calls for a road trip to a remote location with little/no fast charging; that's great. I myself, the developer will only need this once a month at most. The Lightning, as a pure EV Is the best daily driver truck currently available IMO.

 

[ZSC100]

How do you get by the problem of putting the truck into drive with something plugged into the charge port? My 23 ER will not let me put it into drive with anything plugged in the charge port. The door can be open but as soon as you plug something in will no longer go into drive. So how do you get around that?

We placed a small computer between the onboard charger and the battery, which allows us to trick either side into doing anything we want. In the computer networking industry this is called middle-manning; or in hacking terms, a middleman attack.

 

[Traconesu]

Ram charger is a series hybrid truck that has been hyped up by RAM for a few years now, but keeps getting delayed.

You said, "A Hybrid that uses a battery to extend its range", that makes no sense. Hybrids in the traditional definition do not work this way. Hybrids utilize small batteries to gain efficiency by taking advantage of regenerative braking and acceleration. Additionally plug-in hybrids, again, do not work this way In a general sense. You would never use a battery to extend the range of a vehicle with a ICE. It's always the other way around.

It is great that you bought a lightning to get away from gasoline and if your use case never calls for a road trip to a remote location with little/no fast charging; that's great. I myself, the developer will only need this once a month at most. The Lightning, as a pure EV Is the best daily driver truck currently available IMO.

The Toyota Prius high voltage (HV) battery typically has a nominal voltage of 201.6 volts. This is achieved by combining multiple battery blocks, each containing individual cells, wired in series. Snap-on
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Individual Cells:
The HV battery is comprised of numerous individual cells, each with a relatively low voltage.
Battery Blocks:
These cells are grouped into battery blocks, which are then connected in series to reach the overall nominal voltage.
Nominal Voltage:
For the Toyota Prius, the combined voltage of all the blocks results in a nominal 201.6 volts.
High Voltage:
The 201.6 volts is considered high voltage, as anything above 60 volts DC is categorized as such.
Monitoring:
The HV Battery ECU (Electronic Control Unit) monitors the voltage of each individual block to assess the battery's health.
Variable Voltage:
While the nominal voltage is 201.6V, the actual voltage of the battery pack can vary depending on the state of charge and driving conditions. It can fluctuate, for example, during acceleration or regenerative braking.
Example:
A 2010 Prius might show a pack voltage of 219.76 volts, which is within the normal operating range.
Both my 2014 & 2018 prius had HV batteries that extended my range. They were hybrids.

The high-voltage battery in a Ford F-150 PowerBoost hybrid typically operates around 450 volts DC. This high voltage is present in the hybrid system's high-voltage cables and components, which are marked with orange tape or coverings. The high-voltage system also includes a DC-to-DC converter that steps down the voltage to power the 12-volt system and charge the 12-volt battery. I'm not familiar how Dodge hybrids work but I assume they are similar.



All hybrid vehicles have a HV battery. They are used to extend the range of the ICE vehicle. If you drive slow enough and lightly accelerate you can drive a hybrid solely on its HV battery.

 

[Traconesu]

How do you get by the problem of putting the truck into drive with something plugged into the charge port? My 23 ER will not let me put it into drive with anything plugged in the charge port. The door can be open but as soon as you plug something in will no longer go into drive. So how do you get around that?

I was wondering the same thing anything plugged in doesn't allow my vehicle to move.

 

[doggod]

Sure, with this Ford generator it burns about 1gal/hr generating 7kW. So, a pathetic efficiency of around 25% if you assume 30kWhr of energy in a gallon of gas.

that is really bad considering charge point where I live is $0.25 a kwh compared to $5.00 a gallon gas

 

[ZSC100]

that is really bad considering charge point where I live is $0.25 a kwh compared to $5.00 a gallon gas

Unfortunately the midwest still very much favors O&G. Our average gasoline price is below $3, and our home grown, Oklahoma owned level3 charging network is 0.53$/kWhr with almost a thousand chargers in the state. The next sad thing is 100% of the network was 100% subsidized starting with the money from VWgate .

If 10kWhr per gallon could be had at 3/gal that's cheaper than even Tesla's supercharger member pricing.

 

[mr.Magoo]

Please don't clog this thread up with stupid comments and/or safety Karen worries. Martin and I are both engineers and will fully test every aspect of this mod before we release anything to the community.

Maybe this was said already, but that seems like the famous last words of every failed experiment in the history of time.

"Don't worry, I'm an engineer, I know what I'm doing"

And before someone thinks I'm ripping on engineers, I'm one myself.
Only that I'm old enough to know that Murphy is forever present and the more certain you are the more likely it is you missed something.

 

[ZSC100]

Maybe this was said already, but that seems like the famous last words of every failed experiment in the history of time.

"Don't worry, I'm an engineer, I know what I'm doing"

And before someone thinks I'm ripping on engineers, I'm one myself.
Only that I'm old enough to know that Murphy is forever present and the more certain you are the more likely it is you missed something.

This is a great PSA for engineers

Here's something I missed. Generators, as in the ones sitting in garages all over America, and even modern inverter generators are not up for this task. Over testing the past month I have discovered that the 9kW continuous/11kW peak inverter generator I've been using can only give 5.5kW continuous on ethanol blend gas in Tulsa at 800ft above sea level, with 100deg humid air intake

I've since had discussions with people more in tune with ICE small engine performance both in the automotive world and mobile equipment world. It seems this project is going to have to wait for EFI generators to be able to get the full running power rating anywhere in the US. Luckily most of the generator companies are coming out with these as we speak. So, more testing is needed.

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