Charging While Driving Works w/ Gas Generator in Bed (Range Extending for F-150 Lightning)

[Dave Glover]

How do you get by the problem of putting the truck into drive with something plugged into the charge port? My 23 ER will not let me put it into drive with anything plugged in the charge port. The door can be open but as soon as you plug something in will no longer go into drive. So how do you get around that?

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[PJnc284]

From the sounds of it, they're intercepting the CAN signal telling the truck something is plugged in. Way above my paygrade.

 

[ZSC100]

I'm sorry I didn't mention anything about a ram charger. I'm not even sure what that is. Does it have anything to do with the lightning. What is a ram charger?

Ram charger is a series hybrid truck that has been hyped up by RAM for a few years now, but keeps getting delayed.

You said, "A Hybrid that uses a battery to extend its range", that makes no sense. Hybrids in the traditional definition do not work this way. Hybrids utilize small batteries to gain efficiency by taking advantage of regenerative braking and acceleration. Additionally plug-in hybrids, again, do not work this way In a general sense. You would never use a battery to extend the range of a vehicle with a ICE. It's always the other way around.

It is great that you bought a lightning to get away from gasoline and if your use case never calls for a road trip to a remote location with little/no fast charging; that's great. I myself, the developer will only need this once a month at most. The Lightning, as a pure EV Is the best daily driver truck currently available IMO.

 

[ZSC100]

How do you get by the problem of putting the truck into drive with something plugged into the charge port? My 23 ER will not let me put it into drive with anything plugged in the charge port. The door can be open but as soon as you plug something in will no longer go into drive. So how do you get around that?

We placed a small computer between the onboard charger and the battery, which allows us to trick either side into doing anything we want. In the computer networking industry this is called middle-manning; or in hacking terms, a middleman attack.

 

[Traconesu]

Ram charger is a series hybrid truck that has been hyped up by RAM for a few years now, but keeps getting delayed.

You said, "A Hybrid that uses a battery to extend its range", that makes no sense. Hybrids in the traditional definition do not work this way. Hybrids utilize small batteries to gain efficiency by taking advantage of regenerative braking and acceleration. Additionally plug-in hybrids, again, do not work this way In a general sense. You would never use a battery to extend the range of a vehicle with a ICE. It's always the other way around.

It is great that you bought a lightning to get away from gasoline and if your use case never calls for a road trip to a remote location with little/no fast charging; that's great. I myself, the developer will only need this once a month at most. The Lightning, as a pure EV Is the best daily driver truck currently available IMO.

The Toyota Prius high voltage (HV) battery typically has a nominal voltage of 201.6 volts. This is achieved by combining multiple battery blocks, each containing individual cells, wired in series. Snap-on
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Individual Cells:
The HV battery is comprised of numerous individual cells, each with a relatively low voltage.
Battery Blocks:
These cells are grouped into battery blocks, which are then connected in series to reach the overall nominal voltage.
Nominal Voltage:
For the Toyota Prius, the combined voltage of all the blocks results in a nominal 201.6 volts.
High Voltage:
The 201.6 volts is considered high voltage, as anything above 60 volts DC is categorized as such.
Monitoring:
The HV Battery ECU (Electronic Control Unit) monitors the voltage of each individual block to assess the battery's health.
Variable Voltage:
While the nominal voltage is 201.6V, the actual voltage of the battery pack can vary depending on the state of charge and driving conditions. It can fluctuate, for example, during acceleration or regenerative braking.
Example:
A 2010 Prius might show a pack voltage of 219.76 volts, which is within the normal operating range.
Both my 2014 & 2018 prius had HV batteries that extended my range. They were hybrids.

The high-voltage battery in a Ford F-150 PowerBoost hybrid typically operates around 450 volts DC. This high voltage is present in the hybrid system's high-voltage cables and components, which are marked with orange tape or coverings. The high-voltage system also includes a DC-to-DC converter that steps down the voltage to power the 12-volt system and charge the 12-volt battery. I'm not familiar how Dodge hybrids work but I assume they are similar.



All hybrid vehicles have a HV battery. They are used to extend the range of the ICE vehicle. If you drive slow enough and lightly accelerate you can drive a hybrid solely on its HV battery.

 

[Traconesu]

How do you get by the problem of putting the truck into drive with something plugged into the charge port? My 23 ER will not let me put it into drive with anything plugged in the charge port. The door can be open but as soon as you plug something in will no longer go into drive. So how do you get around that?

I was wondering the same thing anything plugged in doesn't allow my vehicle to move.

 

[doggod]

Sure, with this Ford generator it burns about 1gal/hr generating 7kW. So, a pathetic efficiency of around 25% if you assume 30kWhr of energy in a gallon of gas.

that is really bad considering charge point where I live is $0.25 a kwh compared to $5.00 a gallon gas

 

[ZSC100]

that is really bad considering charge point where I live is $0.25 a kwh compared to $5.00 a gallon gas

Unfortunately the midwest still very much favors O&G. Our average gasoline price is below $3, and our home grown, Oklahoma owned level3 charging network is 0.53$/kWhr with almost a thousand chargers in the state. The next sad thing is 100% of the network was 100% subsidized starting with the money from VWgate .

If 10kWhr per gallon could be had at 3/gal that's cheaper than even Tesla's supercharger member pricing.

 

[mr.Magoo]

Please don't clog this thread up with stupid comments and/or safety Karen worries. Martin and I are both engineers and will fully test every aspect of this mod before we release anything to the community.

Maybe this was said already, but that seems like the famous last words of every failed experiment in the history of time.

"Don't worry, I'm an engineer, I know what I'm doing"

And before someone thinks I'm ripping on engineers, I'm one myself.
Only that I'm old enough to know that Murphy is forever present and the more certain you are the more likely it is you missed something.

 

[ZSC100]

Maybe this was said already, but that seems like the famous last words of every failed experiment in the history of time.

"Don't worry, I'm an engineer, I know what I'm doing"

And before someone thinks I'm ripping on engineers, I'm one myself.
Only that I'm old enough to know that Murphy is forever present and the more certain you are the more likely it is you missed something.

This is a great PSA for engineers

Here's something I missed. Generators, as in the ones sitting in garages all over America, and even modern inverter generators are not up for this task. Over testing the past month I have discovered that the 9kW continuous/11kW peak inverter generator I've been using can only give 5.5kW continuous on ethanol blend gas in Tulsa at 800ft above sea level, with 100deg humid air intake

I've since had discussions with people more in tune with ICE small engine performance both in the automotive world and mobile equipment world. It seems this project is going to have to wait for EFI generators to be able to get the full running power rating anywhere in the US. Luckily most of the generator companies are coming out with these as we speak. So, more testing is needed.

 

[ElectrifyingMe25]

This is a great PSA for engineers

Here's something I missed. Generators, as in the ones sitting in garages all over America, and even modern inverter generators are not up for this task. Over testing the past month I have discovered that the 9kW continuous/11kW peak inverter generator I've been using can only give 5.5kW continuous on ethanol blend gas in Tulsa at 800ft above sea level, with 100deg humid air intake

I've since had discussions with people more in tune with ICE small engine performance both in the automotive world and mobile equipment world. It seems this project is going to have to wait for EFI generators to be able to get the full running power rating anywhere in the US. Luckily most of the generator companies are coming out with these as we speak. So, more testing is needed.

This is a great PSA for engineers

Here's something I missed. Generators, as in the ones sitting in garages all over America, and even modern inverter generators are not up for this task. Over testing the past month I have discovered that the 9kW continuous/11kW peak inverter generator I've been using can only give 5.5kW continuous on ethanol blend gas in Tulsa at 800ft above sea level, with 100deg humid air intake

I've since had discussions with people more in tune with ICE small engine performance both in the automotive world and mobile equipment world. It seems this project is going to have to wait for EFI generators to be able to get the full running power rating anywhere in the US. Luckily most of the generator companies are coming out with these as we speak. So, more testing is needed.

****************
I consulted with Grok-3 about the derating of a generator in Tulsa, OK on a 100'F day. Here is my question?:

If a carburated 9.0Kw continous-run-rated gasoline generator running on 10% ethanol gasoline is run in Tulsa, OK at 800ft above sea level, what the most Kw it can produce when the temperature is 100 degrees outside ?

ANSWER BY GROK-3:

To determine the maximum kW output of a 9.0 kW continuous-run-rated carbureted gasoline generator operating in Tulsa, OK, at 800 feet above sea level with 10% ethanol gasoline at an ambient temperature of 100°F (37.8°C), we need to account for derating due to altitude and temperature. Below is the step-by-step analysis:1. Understand Derating FactorsGenerator output is affected by environmental conditions like altitude and temperature due to reduced air density, which impacts combustion efficiency and cooling. Derating adjusts the generator’s rated output to reflect these conditions.

• Altitude Derating: At higher altitudes, lower air pressure reduces oxygen available for combustion, decreasing power output. For gasoline generators, the general guideline is a reduction of 2–3% per 1,000 feet above sea level.
• Temperature Derating: High temperatures reduce air density, further limiting combustion efficiency. Manufacturers typically guarantee full power up to 40°C (104°F), with derating of approximately 3% per 5°C above 40°C. Since 100°F (37.8°C) is below 40°C, temperature derating may not apply unless specified otherwise by the manufacturer.
• Ethanol Blend: 10% ethanol gasoline (E10) has slightly lower energy content than pure gasoline (about 3–5% less energy per unit volume), which may slightly reduce output or efficiency but is typically accounted for in the generator’s design. Specific derating for E10 is not well-documented in the sources, so we’ll assume minimal impact unless specified.

2. Altitude Derating CalculationTulsa, OK, is at 800 feet above sea level. Using the conservative end of the derating range (3% per 1,000 feet):

• Altitude derating factor: 800 / 1,000 = 0.8
• Output reduction: 0.8 × 3% = 2.4%

Thus, the generator’s output is reduced by 2.4% due to altitude.3. Temperature Derating CalculationThe ambient temperature is 100°F (37.8°C), which is below the typical threshold of 40°C (104°F) where derating begins for most generators. Therefore, no additional derating for temperature is applied unless the manufacturer specifies a lower threshold (e.g., 25°C). Since the sources indicate 40°C as the standard, we assume no temperature derating for this calculation.4. Apply Derating to Rated OutputThe generator is rated at 9.0 kW for continuous operation at standard conditions (typically sea level and 25°C). Applying only the altitude derating:

• Reduction due to altitude: 9.0 kW × 0.024 = 0.216 kW
• Maximum output: 9.0 kW − 0.216 kW = 8.784 kW

5. Consider Ethanol Blend (E10)The use of 10% ethanol gasoline may slightly reduce the energy content, potentially lowering output by 3–5%. However, since generators are typically tuned for common fuels like E10, and no specific derating factor for E10 is provided in the sources, we’ll assume the impact is minimal and already factored into the rated output. If we conservatively estimate a 3% reduction due to E10:

• Reduction due to E10: 8.784 kW × 0.03 = 0.263 kW
• Adjusted output: 8.784 kW − 0.263 kW = 8.521 kW

6. Final OutputCombining the altitude derating and a conservative estimate for E10, the maximum continuous output is approximately 8.52 kW. If we assume E10 has no additional derating beyond the generator’s design (more likely for modern generators), the output remains 8.78 kW.7. Considerations

• Manufacturer Specifications: The exact derating factors depend on the generator’s make and model. Some manufacturers provide specific derating tables or high-altitude kits to adjust the carburetor for better performance.
• Carbureted Engine: Carbureted engines are more sensitive to altitude than fuel-injected ones, as they cannot automatically adjust the air-fuel mixture. A high-altitude kit could mitigate some loss but isn’t mentioned in the query.
• Continuous vs. Peak Rating: The 9.0 kW rating is for continuous operation, so peak output might be slightly higher (e.g., 10–11 kW), but derating applies similarly. The answer focuses on continuous output as specified.

Final AnswerThe most kW the 9.0 kW carbureted gasoline generator can produce in Tulsa, OK, at 800 feet above sea level with 10% ethanol gasoline at 100°F is approximately 8.8 kW, assuming no additional derating for E10 beyond the altitude adjustment. If E10 reduces output by an additional 3%, the maximum output would be approximately 8.5 kW. For precise values, consult the generator’s manual for specific derating guidelines. (End)

Likely the generator wasn't properly rated to start with.

 

[hturnerfamily]

my daily bike ride takes me on a rather long mostly flat to some downhill runs... my Son mentioned how little 'exercise' this would be, laughing...

until we got to the other end of the circuit, where the roadway was mostly UPHILL the rest of the way back home...

ugh... now he understands... no more laughing



the rule of Conservation is the same: what goes 'down' must then go back 'up', or vice versa...

...the ideas about 'adding' a simple alternator, or windmill, or those types of things to an EV have similar problems... there are no 'downhill all the way' outcomes.... you must always eventually have to come back 'up'...

the same rule means that whether you use Normal mode, or Sport mode, or Tow mode to 'capture' as much efficiencies, they will all, in the end, come out exactly the same.
- if you let the truck coast, in Normal mode, you won't Regen as much, but, you'll also carry much more speed and inertia into the upcoming hill
- if you drive in Sport mode, letting the truck capture as much Regen on the way down, you'll also be slowing to the point that you need to get BACK into the 'gas' to maintain your lost speed and inertia going back into the upcoming hill
etc.....

there is no magic pill




yet


I like the idea of thinking 'outside of the box', too... so, keep up the good work!

it's not possible, well, until it is : )

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