EREVs Are Not The Answer, EREVs are a Niche Market.

[RickLightning]

You can't think logically about this stuff, people buy based on emotion, not logic. Many buy based on payment, not total cost. Think of all the people that buy EVs and don't understand charging, cold weather impact, etc.

The challenge in product development is understanding your customer. What people SAY they'll do and what they ACTUALLY do aren't the same.

Years ago I worked at a company that did a six-figure study to see if we could gather data 4 weeks earlier on a catalog to allow rebuys on inventory (and liquidations) sooner. Customers were given fake dollars, and told to place a fake order for what they would buy. Of course it turned out that they ordered MORE than they would have with their money, and different products. I said that before we started the test, but no one listened to me.

Ford has actual data. If they eliminate something that has measurable data on usage, you know they're pulling that in to the decision.

But, in this case, responses are emotional. "I never want to run out of charge".

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[Maineiac12]

You’re not giving Ford enough credit here. WE are the minority. Look at the sales figures. They’ve sold ~100,000 Lightnings since 2022 compared to 3 million ICE F-150’s.

Unfortunately, the market has spoken and large BEV trucks aren’t profitable (yet). Ford is going to shift large trucks to EREV to try and bring in more buyers and offer smaller (Maverick/Ranger) size BEV trucks and SUVs.

Just look at the Scout preorders if you want further proof of market preferences. 80% of their orders are for EREV vs BEV.

 

[jimfigler]

it's no different than a BEV being a niche market

 

[flyct]

First let me say I LOVE MY Lightning and it meets my truck needs 100%. I am really pissed off that Ford decided to abandon the Lightning.

NOW If Ford produces an EREV truck at a reasonable cost I can see me possibly thinking about getting one, only for resale value compared to a BEV.

I can see the Ford EREV truck having a following ONLY IF THE PRICE is reasonable.

 

[IdeaOfTheDayCom]

This is a complex subject.

The Lightning may be the best selling EV truck, but the market is small, and it's been declining for quite some time.

One problem is that most of the early adopters who are not concerned with range or towing issues have already purchased their Lightning and since a BEV has a very long lifespan, they're not likely to buy another for a while.

I see this as a way to warm up traditional ICE buyers to the idea of an EV.

Just about everything in the new model will still run on electricity, so they can continue to develop and share traditional components between this and future EV generations.

All that's changing is how (and where) the batteries are charged. As long as the generator pushes power into the batteries faster than it's used, people will just charge as they drive (and potentially run the generator while parked too).

Perhaps in a few years, there will be other ways to charge the batteries such as hydrogen fuel cells or something completely new, or there will simply be more places to charge so that fewer people will worry about range.

When they eventually move back to an all battery solution, the other electric parts will all be newer and more efficient generations and the shift back in the design will be seamless.

As for me, I'm done with gas entirely and so far, I have no need to trade in my 2022. If I do, and Ford doesn't have another all electric truck, I may be forced to look elsewhere.

 

[Pacific.NW]

I have a 2022 ER Lariat.

I tow a small travel trailer… but not all the time.
I haul mountain bikes… but not all the time.
I load my truck with audio equipment for my work… but not all the time.
I drive 6 hours to visit family… but not all the time.

I mostly drive around the city doing family stuff in my truck. I sometimes curse tiny parking spots, but I love driving my Lightning. I may not use my truck “as a truck” every drive I do, but it’s a truck when I need it to be, and it doesn’t use a drop of fuel to get me where I need to go.

No, I don’t NEED a truck. I can do all the things I do with a 4cyl ICE SUV because that’s what I had before. I switched to electric because a year prior, we upgraded my wife’s ICE run around to a Hyundai Kona EV, and I was enamoured with never having to refuel again. A switch flipped in my brain when I realized I was pouring $100+ worth of gasoline DIRECTLY INTO THE AIR every time I filled my SUV - it was a true awakening. I think most people either don’t consider where the fuel goes or turn a blind eye to just how sh!tty we are as humans to think this is an okay thing to do to the planet, because they never see it. The entire process is invisible; the filling and burning of fuel is completely hidden and we have no true sense of the consumption besides the gauge on the dash and the $$$ at the pump.

I considered an EV SUV (specifically the KIA EV9), but the Lightning gave me the ability to put the bikes in the truck bed while towing, and considering that the F150 is a WELL established platform (even if it was new to being electric), I took the leap to a pickup truck (and from a history of mostly Asian brand vehicles, which had been quite reliable, to Ford).

I may not use my truck “as a truck” every drive I do, but it’s a truck when I need it to be, and because it’s fully electric, it doesn’t use a drop of fuel to get me where I need to go. I plug in at home and it charges overnight for just a few dollars.

I may not have the range or quick refuelling that an ICE or EREV may have, but dammit, I’m not getting any younger, and I’m finding I like to drive just a little slower, take a little longer, and I like to stop! I like to stretch! If my vehicle recharges during the 15-45 minutes I’m doing that… perfect! I still get to where I need to be and it doesn’t add much time to my trips.

I’m done with gasoline, and I have zero plans for any of my future vehicles to be anything other than BEV. If Ford is done when the BEV, I’m done with Ford, because an EREV has no place in my driveway.

 

[speedy123]

You don't understand EREV...

Um, yes I do. The engine driving me home part was in jest. I know it only charges and doesn't drive the motors.

I'm sure this whole thing is upsetting news for Lightning owners. I'm not making light of that. But jeez man, maybe lighten up a bit in the tone of some of your replies? I've learned a lot from your many posts, really helpful and informative and a valuable contribution to everybody here. But, considering the season, just a bit grinchy??

 

[tubby]

Dear Ford Motor Company,
As dedicated owners of the current all-electric F-150 Lightning, we fully support your innovation in developing the next-generation F-150 Lightning EREV to address range concerns and expand appeal for long-haul towing and road trips. However, please ensure that you also introduce a pure battery-electric variant—perhaps named the F-150 Thunder EV—to preserve the silent, instant-torque, zero-emissions driving experience that we cherish daily. This pure EV option would allow us to retain what we love most about our Lightnings while giving future buyers the choice many have been hoping for, ensuring Ford continues to lead in true electrification alongside practical extended-range solutions.
Sincerely,
A passionate F-150 Lightning owner

 

[hturnerfamily]

I have a 2022 ER Lariat.

I tow a small travel trailer… but not all the time.
I haul mountain bikes… but not all the time.
I load my truck with audio equipment for my work… but not all the time.
I drive 6 hours to visit family… but not all the time.

I mostly drive around the city doing family stuff in my truck. I sometimes curse tiny parking spots, but I love driving my Lightning. I may not use my truck “as a truck” every drive I do, but it’s a truck when I need it to be, and it doesn’t use a drop of fuel to get me where I need to go.

No, I don’t NEED a truck. I can do all the things I do with a 4cyl ICE SUV because that’s what I had before. I switched to electric because a year prior, we upgraded my wife’s ICE run around to a Hyundai Kona EV, and I was enamoured with never having to refuel again. A switch flipped in my brain when I realized I was pouring $100+ worth of gasoline DIRECTLY INTO THE AIR every time I filled my SUV - it was a true awakening. I think most people either don’t consider where the fuel goes or turn a blind eye to just how sh!tty we are as humans to think this is an okay thing to do to the planet, because they never see it. The entire process is invisible; the filling and burning of fuel is completely hidden and we have no true sense of the consumption besides the gauge on the dash and the $$$ at the pump.

I considered an EV SUV (specifically the KIA EV9), but the Lightning gave me the ability to put the bikes in the truck bed while towing, and considering that the F150 is a WELL established platform (even if it was new to being electric), I took the leap to a pickup truck (and from a history of mostly Asian brand vehicles, which had been quite reliable, to Ford).

I may not use my truck “as a truck” every drive I do, but it’s a truck when I need it to be, and because it’s fully electric, it doesn’t use a drop of fuel to get me where I need to go. I plug in at home and it charges overnight for just a few dollars.

I may not have the range or quick refuelling that an ICE or EREV may have, but dammit, I’m not getting any younger, and I’m finding I like to drive just a little slower, take a little longer, and I like to stop! I like to stretch! If my vehicle recharges during the 15-45 minutes I’m doing that… perfect! I still get to where I need to be and it doesn’t add much time to my trips.

I’m done with gasoline, and I have zero plans for any of my future vehicles to be anything other than BEV. If Ford is done when the BEV, I’m done with Ford, because an EREV has no place in my driveway.

agreed... and some of us are really enjoying the journey

I do realize, though, that newer younger owners might see things differently, don't have the patience, and simply don't want to take the time to 'slow down' and enjoy the ride... sadly.

The EREV model might appeal to them, if they really want an EV with the generator for 'charge anxiety', but, likely, like the current F150 Hybrid, they will more like a truck which requires NO charging...

 

[PJnc284]

Seems like the scuttlebutt is the opposite of the OP's assertion. For example the Scout EV fan forum survey suggests takers of the fully EV version is in the minority, that most preorderers want the Harvester.

https://www.scoutevforum.com/forum/threads/2027-scout-reservation-deposits-list-tracker-stats--.10906/

The verdict is still out until people are actually forking out the money. I mean look at all the reservations for the refrigerator...

 

[TaxmanHog]

I see the EREV as a way to entice folks committed to ICE that are afraid being stranded in a pure BEV, the security blanket of having the onboard generator to supplement the HVB on longer journeys is comforting to them.

I expect the EREV to still function principally as a BEV until the HVB reaches a set threshold SOC, this tolerance should be adjustable by the driver, we experienced pure BEV drivers will push the limits to minimize gas engine operation, and likewise we can tweak it to optimize for a long range low-load or a long range high-load journey as the needs come about.

Hopefully we will see the family of adopters grow, after a few years the new comers will realize they too could have made out with in a pure BEV and will transition further into all electric vehicles.

 

[Deleted member 21405]

it's no different than a BEV being a niche market

Bingo

 

[maxmxa]

EREVs will definitely sell to a niche market. I'm sure some of the Ford fans who wanted the performance of a Lightning and the range of an ICE will be very happy with the recent announcement.

However, how in the heck can Ford justify abandoning most customers who just want their battery electric Lightning. The driving experience of a Lightning is the best of any F-150 ever produced. You will not gain any significant following from BEV to EREV. Who wants to go back to an ICE vehicle unless you are desperate for towing or extremely long ranges.

Ford, you are making a huge mistake by offering only an EREV when current Lightning owners are screaming for you to reconsider. Lightning owners are telling you they won't buy an EREV.

Also, why would people who haul and need a longer driving range, buy a more expensive EREV that's more complicated and has more failure points when they can buy a cheaper ICE that's more reliable.

Someone at Ford who's making all these stupid decisions needs to be fired.

Listen to your customers. They want both improved range Lightnings and EREVs. Why don't you announce you're ending F150 ICE vehicles and forcing that customer base into EREVs. How well do you think that would go? Why didn't you just list a 1-800 number for a Chevy electric truck dealer when you announced you are ending Lightning sales.

Ford needs to rethink their dumb strategy for ending the Lightning.

I own a Lightning at the moment. I really like it. When I get ready for another electric pickup, thank goodness Chevy will be there with arms open.

The writing was on the wall because Ford's CEO is after more profits for the short term. A mistake made by many CEOs of big corporations. Ford should improve the battery technology and range, better charging speed and hire more experts to rewrite or improve the existing software / user interface options. Those are the most common complaints from the customers. However, he thinks by adding a cheap smaller engine and more marketing gimmicks he can convince people to buy a more complex machine that still requires gas and more maintenance and I doubt it will be any less expensive than the current Lightning.

 

[Maybe Going EV]

I like my Lightning, but really miss my 8' box.
Upon my retirement, we decided to become a 1 vehicle couple, but it isn't working out for me.
Come spring, I plan to buy a regular cab, 8' box, 4x4, hopefully with a gas V6, naturally aspirated. I don't want a turbo, nor need a V8, I don't drag race anyone. If Chevy, Ford, or Ram, offers me such a truck in half ton, I'll be a buyer.

 

[chriserx]

However, please ensure that you also introduce a pure battery-electric variant—perhaps named the F-150 Thunder EV—to preserve the silent, instant-torque, zero-emissions driving experience that we cherish daily.

Ohhhhh, I get it! The Thunder comes after the Lightning. But wait, the Thunder makes the noise, shouldn't that be the Lightning? But wait, the Lightning originally came without the noise... OK, now I'm confused....

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