Something about this really stinks...

[ZeusDriver]

I disagree. Not the same thing. They are consumer products that are already exist in the marketplace. This Donut is a YouTube video only at this point..

We must be talking about different companies.

Donut Lab is famous for making funny looking rear wheels for motorcycles that look like a donut... big hole in the middle. I have the paper specs for one of their motors (of a somewhat different size), and they look perfectly fine, and are more complete than the specs for many such motors. I've dealt with motor companies (that are inevitably based in China or Thailand) that produce quite good motors, but the technical specs are frequently awful. With the data from Donut Lab, I could say, "yes this will work" in a matter of minutes. The data from some others can require several days of emails back and forth. Sure, it would be easier if I spoke Mandarin, but I do not.

I have a mutual non-disclosure with Donut, but can say that in my view, there is nothing unusual about their motor from a specifications standpoint (other than the fact that their documentation is easy to read.) Motors of 90%, 91%, 92%, 93% , 94% and 95% efficiency are not hard to find and there is nothing about their specs (which I believe are available to anyone) that says to me "improbable". Nor would I expect any reason for them to inflate specs, because any electric motor is incredibly easy to dyno test -- and many ship with actual dyno charts -- specific even to serial number -- to save me the trouble. (These can be invaluable for Chinese motors, because there is no translation necessary.)

The kind of crap that shows up in the electric outboard motor world from companies like EPropulsion and Torqeedo, (about "incredible" efficiency or fake "equivalents' that imply violation of physics principals -- 746 watts is exactly 1 hp, not 3, every effin place in the world) is completely missing from the Donut documentation... its like the documentation for Reliance, Westinghouse, GE, etc.

So, If you think they are faking all that, then show me some evidence. Show me a questionable spec.

Here is a Forbes article with some test results for their motorcycle.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/billro...e-electric-motorcycle-its-powered-by-a-donut/

For perspective: The Honda CBR 600 is an extremely potent little race bike (and street crotch rocket) and its performance is well known by everyone who pays any attention. The Donut Lab bike (branded Verge) is not as fast, but it is pretty close, at least in 0-60 times and 1/4 mile times. I have not ridden one, but the ergonomics are all wrong for going fast on a road course, and at 530 lbs, it is more than 100 lb too heavy. I would not buy one. But is is a real thing, not just a video, as you and others are trying to suggest.

( I also would not dream of paying more than $40,000 for a Ford Bronco. but plenty of people have done that... for god-only-knows what reason, other than its "cuteness". I would be surprised if they do not sell all their production, despite the fact that you can buy three fabulous Honda CBR600s for the price of one Verge. I worked on an old Ferrari (1957) that recently sold for 5.5 million. I could probably have bought it for 8000 - 10000 back in 1980... all to go as fast as a hopped up Honda Civic. ) Crazy procing is probably a good strategy, just as it was for the Tesla Roadster, way back: $100,000 and some for a crappy version of a Mazda Miata.

I've spent time in Finland. (Not recently) The language is like Navajo, and hard to learn. About all I remember is that the accent is always o the first syllable... so I'd been mispronouncing my old motocross hero Heiki Mikola incorrectly, and the way that I and every English speaker I know pronounces Hellsinki is also wrong. So I, and many other english speakers, tend to call the Donut guy Marko because we can neither spell nor say his last name. It is not some horrible conspiracy, and does not mean that we are all in his back pocket.

I, foolishly, bought an airplane kit decades ago which had both an unproven airframe and an unproven engine. Several people died flying them. In that world, everyone will advise "NEVER build a plane with both an unproven airframe and an unproven engine. So Donut lab is wise to get the motorcycle working first, and then put the new batteries in it.

They say that when the weight of the documentation for a new commercial aircraft design is equal to its gross weight, it is getting close to being ready to fly. Having built more than one car and a few motorcycles, I can say that just designing the thing and throwing the parts together is easy. Dealing with all the regulations, getting insurance together etc, etc,.. is a royal pain. My little Zing microcar was road worthy, and even had a plate... but that is just the very simple start to actually getting such a thing on the market, even when you can circumvent some of the "car" regulations, because a three wheeled vehicle is a motorcycle.

Donut has not homologated the Verge everywhere, but they are sold in a growing number of European countries. That alone is an impressive effort that makes me admire the Donut Lab, Verge, and Nordic Nano folks. In a couple days, perhaps I'll be disappointed, then at the end of March, perhaps more so, but there is not a single comment in this thread that makes me think that all the people involved (including those a VTT) are scammers. What a ludicrously complicated scam: finding all the government folks to pay off, finding PhD chemists willing to put their reps on the line... building new motors and new motorcycles... for what -- a scam that is incredibly difficult and with low payoff.

Mr. Lehtimäki* (Donut) (I offer the last name as an olive branch to Schmuck) and the other Mr Lehtimäki (Verge) have spoken in dozens of videos that I've seen without even looking for them. So I don't get where you and Schmuck are coming up with this "one video" meme. Are you both QuantumScape shareholders? Were you scammed investors in EESTOR and just lashing out at random? -- If so, ya shoulda listened to me way back then. Are we talking about a different Donut?


* sorry... can't recall the code for an umlauted a.
=============================
MOD: ä

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[Shmoe]

We must be talking about different companies.

Donut Lab is famous for making funny looking rear wheels for motorcycles that look like a donut... big hole in the middle. I have the paper specs for one of their motors (of a somewhat different size), and they look perfectly fine, and are more complete than the specs for many such motors. I've dealt with motor companies (that are inevitably based in China or Thailand) that produce quite good motors, but the technical specs are frequently awful. With the data from Donut Lab, I could say, "yes this will work" in a matter of minutes. The data from some others can require several days of emails back and forth. Sure, it would be easier if I spoke Mandarin, but I do not.

Oh our bad man.. they made some fucking wheels. Hahahahaha. This absolutely translates to solid state batteries and the AI conciousness he promised the year before.

You're far too close to the situation to be objective, obviously. Don't get burned buddy, because those flames are hotttttt.

 

[El Duderino]

Edit: Happy to hear real world experience with Donut Labs. Hopefully they deliver on their very lofty claims.

 

[TaxmanHog]

About 24 minutes and we'll have änswers, one way or the other ...... https://idonutbelieve.com/

 

[El Duderino]

First glance, looks like a legit report. I will dig in. I applaud their transparency posting this report.

 

[TaxmanHog]

 

[TaxmanHog]

Part 2 test results

 

[22legit2quit]

If industry wanted us to have cutting edge tech. Like really, we would. Scams and swindlers are far more common than honest folks these days, if you watch the news really any news for what it is it’s there. Retail, wholesale and even garage sales are people trying to pass on negative equity no matter the amount so that whether it’s the space available or unit cost over sales it nets the same effect.

The best knowledge is learned or the root word earned, and the best products are always the ones that are made the closest to their origin. Just watch what private equity does to your favorite restaurants or recreational activities.

If these systems were anything groundbreaking, this company would have been shuttered and collected under the invention secrecy act of 1951 because it would present a national security problem. Major corporations and energy valuations would fall to nothing immediately. So yes, it does stink but no more than Doug flutie and frank thomas selling total t on late night television or the YouTube special wax spray from Germany that’s really from crapper in Connecticut.

 

[Shmoe]

About 24 minutes and we'll have änswers, one way or the other ...... https://idonutbelieve.com/

so it looks like a pouch cell. With 4.15V and 26Ah of capacity.

to reach the 5kWh solid state pack that was fairly small and on display, youd need roughly 60 of these cells.

seems like you have an “space occupancy” issue, guys.

 

[22legit2quit]

I mean I want this to work too. Not that I think it will here because the reveal for things like these come on more subtle. Like I just heard about that electric motor from one of the super car makers that was incredibly light cranking out unreal power numbers. Come to find out it’s from a failed drone company that was sold out of bad debt to Amazon. Like a made for tv drama on amc. I didn’t say this in my original post. Pacemakers are probably one of the early as success stories, I’m sure the devices themselves are somewhat cheap to make now which I figure the amortized r&d should be well paid for also.

 

[GunnarH]

I'm assuming VTT is not a wholly owned subsidiary of Donut Lab.

It's owned and operated by the Finnish government as a non-profit.

Keep in mind that Finland is a very high tech country. I'm not saying the battery tech has to be real for that reason, but when it comes to trust, I'd say the Finns in general are high up on my list. They're a stoic, no nonsense kind of people.

I found this video interesting:

 

[Rice_classic]

The best knowledge is learned or the root word earned, and the best products are always the ones that are made the closest to their origin. Just watch what private equity does to your favorite restaurants or recreational activities.

Or what it does to your local Telecom, Elderly care facility, hospital, housing market, retailers... basically anything. If ever there was an "Enemy Within" its name would be Private Equity.

 

[Rice_classic]

I'd like to see the battery punctured - isn't one of the benefits of SS Batteries resistance to fire?

 

[Shmoe]

Certainly the biggest question everyone had was about the fast-charging claims and not whether the battery exists and is actually solid state heh.

 

[Mal106]

If it seems to good to be true it probably is. Certainly in this case. Despite that initial charging test, i won't get in on an IPO at this point. So earth shattering that it makes you think of the mysterious deaths and disappearances associated with the 50 mpg carburator and the water powered car.

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