Reduced Powertrain / Reduced Power Notice?

[jamelski]

Your 2023 with 38k is not gonna be under 70% SOH, your wasting your time trying to get them to do the SOH test, unless you have seen a GOM with less than 70% of your brand new range from years ago

You got a bad module, if anything your service rep is mumbling in his head f this guy/girl/they/them/fox

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[jthiesse13]

Those numbers, the cell voltages, are the SOC of the cells, not the state of health.

To know the state of health (SOH), the present energy capacity vs that when new (100%), you could use CarScanner for example.

Another less reliable way is to charge the battery to 100% and see what the guess-o-meter says the range is and compare that to your original range (not as accurate because recent driving will affect the guess).

If the capacity (SOH) falls below 70% of the original within the warranty period 8 years or 100k miles, then Ford has to do something about it either repair or replacement.

PS: you should be able to get the dealer/Ford to do the analysis, esp if your expected range drops 30% under normal conditions.

Thanks. I asked the dealer to scan the state of health. I’m curious to see where I’m at after 38,000 miles.

Your 2023 with 38k is not gonna be under 70% SOH, your wasting your time trying to get them to do the SOH test, unless you have seen a GOM with less than 70% of your brand new range from years ago

You got a bad module, if anything your service rep is mumbling in his head f this guy/girl/they/them/fox

Why wouldn’t someone be interested in knowing the battery SOH for a 3 year old truck that’s 38% into the warranty? Let’s say I’m at 80% now, that would be as good to know as if I’m at 90-95%. This info would help me decide f I want to keep the truck long term (which I do) so I don’t see this as a waste of time at all.

 

[chl]

Thanks. I asked the dealer to scan the state of health. I’m curious to see where I’m at after 38,000 miles.

Why wouldn’t someone be interested in knowing the battery SOH for a 3 year old truck that’s 38% into the warranty? Let’s say I’m at 80% now, that would be as good to know as if I’m at 90-95%. This info would help me decide f I want to keep the truck long term (which I do) so I don’t see this as a waste of time at all.

Yes have them do a SOH test after they put the new module in, but I'd suggest waiting until the modules balance out to get the most accurate reading. And the drop in capacity is usually steepest the first few years, then tapers off, so don't assume a linear drop based on whatever SOH result you get.

The dealership is supposed to do some balancing before/after installing the new module but it will not be 'perfect' and the BMS will have to finish the balancing over a period of time and several charging cycles.

Depending on the relative SOCs between the 'new' module and the old ones remaining, that can reportedly take up to 55 days.

The repair itself could take days to weeks, based on owner reports and depending on the dealership.

The ultimate SOH, capacity and range estimate will depend on the weakest module, which is the limiting factor in any multi-cell battery.

Doing low current/longer time L2 charging is likely the best way for the BMS to do it's job and 'recalibrate.'
----
When I first got my 2012 Nissan Leaf as part of a court settlement they wanted to do battery checks once a year to watch for early degradation.
All was normal slow aging loss of capacity of about 1% to 2% per year the first few years.
Those first years are the steepest decline usually, then it tapers off.
Now that it's going on 15 years old, it's still useful for local trips to the store ans so forth with just under 80% capacity.
It's a bit different chemistry, Lithium Magnesium Oxide and Lithium Nickle Oxide which can provide faster energy delivery but degrades faster than the Lightning's NMC chemistry.
So I think absent some manufacturing defect or 'abuse', we could expect the Lightning HVB to last (have at least 70% capacity) well past the 8yr 100k mile warranty.

 

[chl]

BTW depending on the battery SR or ER or Mr (Flash) and year, the number of modules will be 9 but the number of cells differs.

This table lists the total number of cells and kWh but it includes the 'headroom' or 'buffer' so the usable capacity is less - e.g., the SR lists 107.6kWh but the usable is 98kWh.

 

[GoodSam]

This table lists the total number of cells

And these cells are in groups of 4 or 5 cells in parallel, which is why the dealer reports only show 90 (SR) or 96 (ER) cells being measured.

 

[bmwhitetx]

I'd like to see a test showing what my HV battery health is.

The video is showing you the BECM Battery Health test. The State of Health is listed on that page. So it might be in the video they sent you.

Here is a screenshot of my most recent test. Below the table of cell values you see some statistics including the Battery State of Health (outlined in red).

(As someone who has two modules replaced, it has been run a few times for me.)

According to the Service manual, this is the value they use for the 8 year/100K 70% battery warranty (Pinpoint Test AP4). For me it has always matched what is also shown in Car Scanner (limited sample). But others report differently. Even when my two bad modules (2 years apart) were wacky, both Car Scanner and the BECM test reported SOH >= 98.5%

 

[chl]

The video is showing you the BECM Battery Health test. The State of Health is listed on that page.

Here is a screenshot of my most recent test. Below the table of cell values you see some statistics including the Battery State of Health (outlined in red). Maybe it is shown in the video they sent.

(As someone who has two modules replaced, it has been run a few times for me.)

According to the Service manual, this is the value they use for the 8 year/100K 70% battery warranty (Pinpoint Test AP4). For me it has always matched what is also shown in Car Scanner (limited sample). But others report differently. Even when my two bad modules (2 years apart) were wacky, both Car Scanner and the BECM test reported SOH >= 98.5%

Just curious about a couple things, hope you don't mind.

What mileage / time you had on the truck when you had to have the modules replaced?
2 years apart, different modules?
How many bad cells did the each of the modules have?

Interesting that the bad modules didn't affect the SOH readings - I guess the bad cells effect was below the threshold of the SOH calculation.

Thanks.

 

[chl]

And these cells are in groups of 4 or 5 cells in parallel, which is why the dealer reports only show 90 (SR) or 96 (ER) cells being measured.

I see, thanks for the explanation of that.

Does anyone know what they do with the modules they remove from the trucks?

Do they disassemble them and replace the bad cell(s) and then use the repaired modules for the next truck that needs a replacement?

 

[bmwhitetx]

Just curious about a couple things, hope you don't mind.

What mileage / time you had on the truck when you had to have the modules replaced?
2 years apart, different modules?
How many bad cells did the each of the modules have?

March 2024: HVB age 17 months , 7.5K miles
Module 6, cell 62. CarScanner Deviation 4.3%, SOH before and after 99%

March 2026: HVB age 41 months , 15K miles
Module 3, cell 29. CarScanner Deviation 9.5%, SOH before and after 98.5%

 

[TaxmanHog]

Does anyone know what they do with the modules they remove from the trucks?

I suspect they are eventually sent to "Redwood Materials" for destruction and reclamation of elements.

 

[chl]

I suspect they are eventually sent to "Redwood Materials" for destruction and reclamation of elements.

I wondered because I think the the tear-down video from Munro or another video seemed to suggest that they made the battery modular down to the cell level for easy service/repair.

With the Nissan Leaf, some shops will open the battery and replace the faulty cell pairs (the 'modules' are cell pairs from what I understand) like in this video:


The battery in the video is 30kWh so a lot smaller than the Lightning's.

If you have one of 9 modules apparently with one bad cell like the OP's, seems like a waste to recycle it for the materials rather than repair and repurpose it. But they must have their reasons.

 

[chl]

March 2024: HVB age 17 months , 7.5K miles
Module 6, cell 62. CarScanner Deviation 4.3%, SOH before and after 99%

March 2026: HVB age 41 months , 15K miles
Module 3, cell 29. CarScanner Deviation 9.5%, SOH before and after 98.5%

Thanks.
What a pain to have 2 modules fail so soon and with relatively low mileage.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I wondered because I think the the tear-down video from Munro or another video seemed to suggest that they made the battery modular down to the cell level for easy service/repair.

Revisit the videos from Munro, the engineer points the "difficulty" splitting the parallel groupings from within the module from the end plates, very little reusable tab materials left when rejoining the healthy cells with the replace cell group into the original end collectors.

 

[chl]

Revisit the videos from Munro, the engineer points the "difficulty" splitting the parallel groupings from within the module from the end plates, very little reusable tab materials left when rejoining the healthy cells with the replace cell group into the original end collectors.

Been a while since I watched it.

I think 'difficulty' is a relative term though.

I guess it's a cost benefit analysis situation, and to Ford, replacing the whole module must be less costly.

Now, when our 8 year 100k mile warranty expires, what are we owners going to do when a module has a bad cell leading the the yellow wrench display, etc.?

Maybe we'll find a used module from a totaled Lightning to replace the one with the bad cell with.
Maybe some 3rd party shop will do a bad cell replacement for less $$

Or maybe better battery tech will be available by then to plug and play with the discontinued Lightnings.

There are plug and play battery upgrades for the older Nissan Leafs a lot cheaper than a whole new car too! (From China via Japan so tariffs are a potential issue...alas.)

 

[chl]

I was reading that instead of replacing a whole module when one cell goes bad, Tesla has wired the module cells with fuses so if a cell goes bad it can simply be isolated from the good cells.

"Each cell is connected via tiny fuse wires (wire bonding) that can break during a failure to electrically remove that cell, preventing the entire module from failing, though this slightly reduces the total battery capacity. "

I guess to Tesla, battery module replacement for one bad cell is seen as wasteful and costly, and fundamentally unnecessary when a simple work around is possible.

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