CHARGING IN THE WINTER

[Heliian]

If that is the case, it must be doing it by engaging HVB regardless of being plugged in or not because I didn’t see anything going in from my chargers while plugged in. Has anyone seen this happening by monitoring OBD-II ?

It depends on battery temp.

It might not need a lot to keep it ideal, it only does it on 240v though.

The standing battery temp is cooler than a preconditioned one.

Below 0 deg C you'll really start to notice it.

Just keep an eye on your charge data, it will draw power at some point unless you have your charger locked down during peak.

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[Maxx]

It depends on battery temp.

It might not need a lot to keep it ideal, it only does it on 240v though.

The standing battery temp is cooler than a preconditioned one.

Below 0 deg C you'll really start to notice it.

Just keep an eye on your charge data, it will draw power at some point unless you have your charger locked down during peak.

I will start monitoring my battery temp. we just dipped bellow zero (32F ambient). My truck sits outside and I drive it daily so the battery temp may have not gone bellow freezing yet. Once I know at what battery temp heater kicks in and at what temp it stops and when I get a feel for how long it takes for battery drop down to those temps. I will know when plugging in is a waste of time and when it helps.

 

[RickLightning]

The button is inside the charge door to the right of the receptacle. The manual says to push and hold the button in just before plugging in the charger when a series of lights around the button light up and turn blue showing the rate of charge I believe. It says to push and hold the button in when unplugging the charger as well. Guess I'll try it tonight without pushing the button and see if it automatically starts charging or not.

Your understanding is not correct. You do not push any button before plugging in. The button is pushed when you want to end a DC charging session. And, you don't hold it.

 

[bc1]

Ok. Thanks. Another mystery/misconception solved. Something I read or what someone told me at the dealer when I bot it is what I said. From review of the manual, the middle button when pushed and held causes the tabs around it to light up in white as a courtesy light to help you plug in and does the same when I unplug in the dark. The surrounding tabs also show the current charge of the battery in solid blue with each solid one representing 20% each and a flashing one indicating it is charging. So three solid blues and one flashing is a minimum 60% charge in the battery. After being plugged in and charging it is locked in so the button has to be pushed to unlock it apparently although I'm not sure I did it every time.

 

[mr.Magoo]

I'll do it before the morning trip preconditioning (cabin heating) kicks off.

I will start monitoring my battery temp.

Just be aware that...
A) OBD won't respond with the truck off and if you poll it enough it will sometimes wake things up in which case you'll drain the 12V if you do it repeatedly.

B) If you start the truck while plugged in it'll heat the battery.


I have plenty of "cold soak" data, but I haven't captured a spontaneous heating event, I'll see what I can do on that one.

 

[RickLightning]

Ok. Thanks. Another mystery/misconception solved. Something I read or what someone told me at the dealer when I bot it is what I said. From review of the manual, the middle button when pushed and held causes the tabs around it to light up in white as a courtesy light to help you plug in and does the same when I unplug in the dark. The surrounding tabs also show the current charge of the battery in solid blue with each solid one representing 20% each and a flashing one indicating it is charging. So three solid blues and one flashing is a minimum 60% charge in the battery. After being plugged in and charging it is locked in so the button has to be pushed to unlock it apparently although I'm not sure I did it every time.

The charge port light should be on when you open the door so you can see where to plug in. You control whether it comes on or not in vehicle settings.

You only push the button to disconnect fast charging, not level 2 (push, not push and hold). The charger cord locking to the vehicle is a 2025 feature, it hasn't rolled back to prior years. Having the fob or PaaK in your pocket, or the vehicle unlocked, unlocks the cord.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Have you ever checked the battery temp with the car scanner to see what that minimum is?

Not yet, now that we're in winter conditions, I'll plug it in Saturday morning before coffee run. and pull some data, it'll still be cold soaked and I'll do it before the morning trip preconditioning (cabin heating) kicks off.

Overnight wasn't in the teens like a couple of days ago, next Tuesday morning we will another round of really cold temperatures.

I pulled a bunch of screens from car scanner, last night and this morning.

This is what the conditions were after a parking the truck, I had just returned home from coffee ride downtown, only using remote start (un-plugged) to war the cabin, the ride up and home amounted to about 13 miles.

Outside temp was 27, the battery was around 34, the motors were around 55 & 59 and the engine coolant temp=169

HVB SOC 54% and predicted range at these conditions 115 miles

This morning around 06:15 am, I woke up the truck with a status refresh request and door unlock command, these steps wake up the trucks modules, car scanner proceeded to connect to the truck while still parked/off in the garage. The temperatures across the board were near ambient temp's 30 to 36.

The truck was not plugged in overnight, I reduced my charging max SOC to 50% to prevent any overt charging activity when I plug into the EVSE, after plugging in the FCSP sampled the truck conditions and requirements, and after about 10 seconds returned to standby mode (not charging) but energy is available if the truck request any. Notice the predicted range improved with the modest 3+ degrees warmer ambient temp's and resting of the cells overnight.

Also notice the LVB voltage 11.9v and SOC had dropped to 59%

Now I have to wait for when the departure event {while plugged in} decides to prepare the HVB battery temperature for departure time of 07:55 am, it started at 07:05 am as measured by my Emporia energy monitor. Ford App confirms what activity is occuring. Notice the coolant temps start to rise.

While this is going on, the LVB is also getting a charge-up, at 15 v charging level, SOC increasing, feeding 17 amps at 15v is ~255 watts. HVB SOH is 98%, the 9.2 kW charging energy is simply the energy that the FCSP is providing, most of this is being sucked up by the PTC to warm the HVB and little for the DC/DC inverter to sustain/recharge the LVB. Notice the HVB net KW is negative 0.04 kW so no recharging is happening at this point, thermal mode is 'HEAT' with 8.61 kW going into the PTC

At 07:26 am the warming continues:, the emporia screen is from 07:24

At 07:29 the battery preparation phase is completed based on the status reported in Ford App.
Hvb Thermal mode is now off, and the FCSP is providing ~6 kWh of energy to continue running the PTC for cabin prep and DC/DC operations.

At 7:44 am, I'm still seeing cabin prep, though departure time is 07:55, normally this would only kick on at 07:50 when the truck is not plugged into an EVSE. Notice the improved range because of the warmed battery. Then at 07:52 I looked at Ford app again, now showing FAN animation. Total energy provided to the truck is now 5.6 kWh.

Just before heading out to unplug & drive to breakfast, these are the temperature conditions,

Drove to breakfast, these are the statistics at 08:13 am, notice the difference in net LVB battery current is negative draw on reserves, the -13 amps is after hitting the unlock button, waking the truck and illuminating perimeter lighting. When I hit the LOCK button the lights go out and mirrors fold, the modules are still active but net load drops to -7 amps

While drinking my coffee, I pull some Emporia & FCSP energy stat's, about 6.6 kWh of energy, at the current rates of 39 cents a kWh in southeastern Massachusetts, it cost me $2.60 to prepare the battery for travel and warm the cabin, given my travel requirements this is a HUGE waste of energy, but I like to do the study to demonstrate to everyone so you can make an informed decision as to whether preparing the battery is worth the squeeze, if you're traveling long distances and need every joule of juice to make the daily trip, then it's certainly worth the effort, otherwise consider the break-even value in your case.

While continuing to enjoy breakfast it is 08:39 and the temperature conditions.

Hope this exercise helps folks make a reasonable decision as to when to always be plugged in for the purpose of conditioning the HVB.

I'm going to plug in my truck Monday evening to see how the spontaneous battery warming operates over night into an 11 degree low expect for Tuesday morning, I will have the charging set point rolled back to 50% to prevent charging and I will switch off my departure schedule. These settings will allow me to see how much energy the truck consumes for spontaneous battery protection warming, last year I observed one short period of warming between midnight and 5 am, I'm curious to see what it does this year after various OTA's have posted.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Just be aware that...
A) OBD won't respond with the truck off and if you poll it enough it will sometimes wake things up in which case you'll drain the 12V if you do it repeatedly.

B) If you start the truck while plugged in it'll heat the battery.


I have plenty of "cold soak" data, but I haven't captured a spontaneous heating event, I'll see what I can do on that one.

A) Yes, I understand, I didn't interrogate the truck last night first effort was this morning, a Status refresh and door unlock command will wake up the systems.

B) I did not use remote start to turn the truck on, step A allow car scanner to connect to the truck.

c) I'm doing a spontaneous process test Tuesday morning.

 

[PJnc284]

Overnight wasn't in the teens like a couple of days ago, next Tuesday morning we will another round of really cold temperatures.

I pulled a bunch of screens from car scanner, last night and this morning.

This is what the conditions were after a parking the truck, I had just returned home from coffee ride downtown, only using remote start (un-plugged) to war the cabin, the ride up and home amounted to about 13 miles.

Outside temp was 27, the battery was around 34, the motors were around 55 & 59 and the engine coolant temp=169

HVB SOC 54% and predicted range at these conditions 115 miles

Hope this exercise helps folks make a reasonable decision as to when to always be plugged in for the purpose of conditioning the HVB.

I'm going to plug in my truck Monday evening to see how the spontaneous battery warming operates over night into an 11 degree low expect for Tuesday morning, I will have the charging set point rolled back to 50% to prevent charging and I will switch off my departure schedule. These settings will allow me to see how much energy the truck consumes for spontaneous battery protection warming, last year I observed one short period of warming between midnight and 5 am, I'm curious to see what it does this year after various OTA's have posted.

Shame we can't like more than once

 

[21st Century Truck]

Overnight wasn't in the teens like a couple of days ago, next Tuesday morning we will another round of really cold temperatures.

I pulled a bunch of screens from car scanner, last night and this morning.

This is what the conditions were after a parking the truck, I had just returned home from coffee ride downtown, only using remote start (un-plugged) to war the cabin, the ride up and home amounted to about 13 miles.

Outside temp was 27, the battery was around 34, the motors were around 55 & 59 and the engine coolant temp=169

HVB SOC 54% and predicted range at these conditions 115 miles

This morning around 06:15 am, I woke up the truck with a status refresh request and door unlock command, these steps wake up the trucks modules, car scanner proceeded to connect to the truck while still parked/off in the garage. The temperatures across the board were near ambient temp's 30 to 36.

The truck was not plugged in overnight, I reduced my charging max SOC to 50% to prevent any overt charging activity when I plug into the EVSE, after plugging in the FCSP sampled the truck conditions and requirements, and after about 10 seconds returned to standby mode (not charging) but energy is available if the truck request any. Notice the predicted range improved with the modest 3+ degrees warmer ambient temp's and resting of the cells overnight.

Also notice the LVB voltage 11.9v and SOC had dropped to 59%

Now I have to wait for when the departure event {while plugged in} decides to prepare the HVB battery temperature for departure time of 07:55 am, it started at 07:05 am as measured by my Emporia energy monitor. Ford App confirms what activity is occuring. Notice the coolant temps start to rise.

While this is going on, the LVB is also getting a charge-up, at 15 v charging level, SOC increasing, feeding 17 amps at 15v is ~255 watts. HVB SOH is 98%, the 9.2 kW charging energy is simply the energy that the FCSP is providing, most of this is being sucked up by the PTC to warm the HVB and little for the DC/DC inverter to sustain/recharge the LVB. Notice the HVB net KW is negative 0.04 kW so no recharging is happening at this point, thermal mode is 'HEAT' with 8.61 kW going into the PTC

At 07:26 am the warming continues:, the emporia screen is from 07:24

At 07:29 the battery preparation phase is completed based on the status reported in Ford App.
Hvb Thermal mode is now off, and the FCSP is providing ~6 kWh of energy to continue running the PTC for cabin prep and DC/DC operations.

At 7:44 am, I'm still seeing cabin prep, though departure time is 07:55, normally this would only kick on at 07:50 when the truck is not plugged into an EVSE. Notice the improved range because of the warmed battery. Then at 07:52 I looked at Ford app again, now showing FAN animation. Total energy provided to the truck is now 5.6 kWh.

Just before heading out to unplug & drive to breakfast, these are the temperature conditions,

Drove to breakfast, these are the statistics at 08:13 am, notice the difference in net LVB battery current is negative draw on reserves, the -13 amps is after hitting the unlock button, waking the truck and illuminating perimeter lighting. When I hit the LOCK button the lights go out and mirrors fold, the modules are still active but net load drops to -7 amps

While drinking my coffee, I pull some Emporia & FCSP energy stat's, about 6.6 kWh of energy, at the current rates of 39 cents a kWh in southeastern Massachusetts, it cost me $2.60 to prepare the battery for travel and warm the cabin, given my travel requirements this is a HUGE waste of energy, but I like to do the study to demonstrate to everyone so you can make an informed decision as to whether preparing the battery is worth the squeeze, if you're traveling long distances and need every joule of juice to make the daily trip, then it's certainly worth the effort, otherwise consider the break-even value in your case.

While continuing to enjoy breakfast it is 08:39 and the temperature conditions.

Hope this exercise helps folks make a reasonable decision as to when to always be plugged in for the purpose of conditioning the HVB.

I'm going to plug in my truck Monday evening to see how the spontaneous battery warming operates over night into an 11 degree low expect for Tuesday morning, I will have the charging set point rolled back to 50% to prevent charging and I will switch off my departure schedule. These settings will allow me to see how much energy the truck consumes for spontaneous battery protection warming, last year I observed one short period of warming between midnight and 5 am, I'm curious to see what it does this year after various OTA's have posted.

Great, detailed info. Thank You.

 

[bc1]

The charge port light should be on when you open the door so you can see where to plug in. You control whether it comes on or not in vehicle settings.

You only push the button to disconnect fast charging, not level 2 (push, not push and hold). The charger cord locking to the vehicle is a 2025 feature, it hasn't rolled back to prior years. Having the fob or PaaK in your pocket, or the vehicle unlocked, unlocks the cord.

Thank you Rick. You must be correct as that jives with what happened yesterday with the key fob in my pocket. I pulled the charger right out and it wasn't locked and the light came on when the door opened and it automatically began charging when plugged in.

And for Taxman: I'll bet you were the life of the party at your morning coffee club breakfast meeting!!!

 

[TaxmanHog]

And for Taxman: I'll bet you were the life of the party at your morning coffee club breakfast meeting!!!

My wife knows me all to well

 

[srspring551]

OK, apologies ahead of time - I tried searching the forum for where to connect the ANCEL BM200-US Car Battery Tester but can someone please let me know if it makes a difference connecting it upstream or downstream of the LVB management unit? (I know it makes a difference using a trickle charger....) Thank you

 

[TaxmanHog]

Completed the weekly charging of my Lightning just now, 45% to 90% took about 3.6 hours.
Emporia log shows 70.27 kWh for all of today's activities, conditioning battery, cabin and charging.
The FCSP log shows 69.995 kWh and ~$27.30 cost.

My weekly driving amount to a whopping 62 miles, lot's of departure timed warming or remote starts to ensure a comfortable ride for Mrs. Taxman, my miles per kWh {0.9} drops through the floor in winter for these reasons, resulting in 44.2 cent per mile cost of driving, which is well above my old PowerStroke, but the creature comforts of a warm vehicle is a winner with the Lightning, the old diesel was cold blooded beast in winter.

Some health statistics for the battery pack just after finishing the charging session.
The heat from earlier in the morning and heat generated during charging maintained well, it will be interesting to see how much is lost by Monday morning, we will be driving the Mrs. ICE vehicle Sunday. SOH is 98.5%, the LVB has been topped up to 99%, will be interesting to see where that's at Monday as well, I'm leaving the OBD2 plugged in to see if that causes severe impact.

The gross energy stored on the HVB is calculated to be 83% vs. dash indication of 90%
GOM range value of 270 miles imputed 100% value would be about 300 miles out of 320 theoretical miles, which we all know is impossible in this climate, especially how I operate and drive my truck.

 

[21st Century Truck]

Completed the weekly charging of my Lightning just now, 45% to 90% took about 3.6 hours.
Emporia log shows 70.27 kWh for all of today's activities, conditioning battery, cabin and charging.
The FCSP log shows 69.995 kWh and ~$27.30 cost.

My weekly driving amount to a whopping 62 miles, lot's of departure timed warming or remote starts to ensure a comfortable ride for Mrs. Taxman, my miles per kWh {0.9} drops through the floor in winter for these reasons, resulting in 44.2 cent per mile cost of driving, which is well above my old PowerStroke, but the creature comforts of a warm vehicle is a winner with the Lightning, the old diesel was cold blooded beast in winter.

Some health statistics for the battery pack just after finishing the charging session.
The heat from earlier in the morning and heat generated during charging maintained well, it will be interesting to see how much is lost by Monday morning, we will be driving the Mrs. ICE vehicle Sunday. SOH is 98.5%, the LVB has been topped up to 99%, will be interesting to see where that's at Monday as well, I'm leaving the OBD2 plugged in to see if that causes severe impact.

The gross energy stored on the HVB is calculated to be 83% vs. dash indication of 90%
GOM range value of 270 miles imputed 100% value would be about 300 miles out of 320 theoretical miles, which we all know is impossible in this climate, especially how I operate and drive my truck.

Yes, the drop in the retained heat curve within the traction battery will be of interest. I have a SWAG estimate but I'll hold my fire to see how far off my SWAG will be. Thanks for doing this.

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