Charging While Driving Works w/ Gas Generator in Bed (Range Extending for F-150 Lightning) - Testing

[Timeless Epoch]

I am no mathematician, but my rudimentary number indicate a potential 561 mile range at 60 MPH (2.4 M/kWh) with the extended range battery, charging at a sustained 11 kWh.
I realize there are inefficiencies in charging, head wind, acceleration and braking, that will alter actual results.
I would love to hear from somebody better at math and understanding of electricity to weigh in with their estimate.

Not that I would want to do this on a regular basis, but such an idea would help with the 400 mile trip, towing a horse trailer that I was trying to plan out last night.

I wouldn't want to drive 60 on the highway, I'd get ran over.

When I recalculate for 70MPH, I get a addition of 88 miles. Considering you'd have to stop for fuel now, as well as charge, it wouldn't be worth it to me. Also, you are still not in Silverado EV territory.

For me, for as much as I have zero love for Chevy, If I had a requirement of greater than 250 miles between DCFC stops, I'd just bite the bullet and get the Chevy.

Here is my math:

Typical driver is going to go from 80% to 15% during a road trip, so 65% battery consumption between charges.

65% of 131KWh is 85.5Kwh consumed between charges. I get about 2.1Mi/KWh when doing 70MPH. 85.15 KWh X 2.1 Mi/KWh is 178.8 miles of usable range between DCFC-ing. Our baseline.

Even though we are driving 70MPH, we are going to average closer to 65MPH when you consider 1 or 2 stops in between. That means it takes us (178.8/65) 2.75 hours to drive that distance.

Which means we are consuming 31KW/h. A 48A charge is going to deliver about 10KW, meaning it reduces the burden on the battery to 21KW/h.

85.15KWh usable between DCFC, used at a rate of 21Kw/h, means 4.1 hours range. At 65MPH average, that is 266.5 miles or 87.7 miles of additional range.

EDIT: For fun I recalculated, using the same math, for towing at 1mi/KWh and the additional range is 15.5 miles between DCFC.

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[ZSC100]

I think the creativeness behind this is quite admirable. I myself would never use such a product though.

To me, clearly it's not secured in a safe manner with one strap like that. Determining the proper method to secure it, especially in an emergency stop or accident avoidance maneuver, is key, keeping in mind that the points you secure it to are only rated for a certain amount, so if you chained it to a point but that point can't take more than XXX pounds of stress, it's useless.

Someone also mentioned storing the fuel, which adds complexity and risk.

I can see the person that goes into the wilderness having applicability but would not see this as a solution for a person just wanting more range. The problem is, the yahoos that think "I need more range" when they really don't, using something like this, and not taking the proper safety precautions. Same yahoos that tow over capacity at 85mph with tires rated for 65mph.

It will be interesting as to the final solution's weight, and impact on range with it and fuel. It clearly eliminates a portion of the bed as well as the removal / opening of a tonneau cover, eliminating any secure bed storage.

Of course you could buy a Diamondback HD, and simply mount it on top....

Yep, stuff like this requires common sense and risk analysis by the end user. It's no different than installing CommaAI on a vehicle, or hanging a weight on the steering wheel so you can eat a sandwich while your vehicle drives, or eliminating your PACM/PAWS. This is why we're simply making a DIY bed port kit that enables CWD and the end user brings their own generator, straps down their own generator, assumes any risk from said generator, etc. This is really no different than any aftermarket accessory in most ways.

 

[ZSC100]

I'm still waiting to see the math. Show me that isn't wildly expensive range.

The cost per kWhr generated has been around 35c/kWhr with midwest gas prices around $3/gal. Martin will cover all this in great detail next week.

 

[RickLightning]

Yep, stuff like this requires common sense and risk analysis by the end user. It's no different than installing CommaAI on a vehicle, or hanging a weight on the steering wheel so you can eat a sandwich while your vehicle drives, or eliminating your PACM/PAWS. This is why we're simply making a DIY bed port kit that enables CWD and the end user brings their own generator, straps down their own generator, assumes any risk from said generator, etc. This is really no different than any aftermarket accessory in most ways.

You cite some great examples and say risk analysis by the end user. The problem is, that too many people a) aren't qualified to do risk analysis or b) don't give a rat's ass if their behavior impacts others. Many who tow over capacity never consider they may kill their family members or others when their vehicle and tow vehicle go out of control.

An example:

A relative of mine was very cheap. He would take his vehicle to the dealership for an oil change every 3,500 miles. One day his vehicle had a suspension failure in the steering linkage and went out of control at 20mph, coming to rest on a lawn. No one hurt, no damage, all is well. I called the dealership to ask how he could have had a recent oil change and they didn't notice this, and turn out they did and he refused the repair.

I then talked to my relative and asked why he didn't get it fixed, and he basically said no one got hurt. I pointed out that if it failed at 75mph on the interstate it could have been disastrous, and he said he lived to 85 and when his time comes... I said "what about the mother and 3 kids your car could have killed when you went out control?" He looked at me blankly.

Anytime I see a very dangerously overloaded vehicle, I dial 911 and report it. They have no right to endanger others.

I hope if you sell a product ultimately you put lots of big warning and caution messages about securing things and being safe.

 

[ElectrifyingMe25]

Most people aren't understanding that you only put the generator in and range extend your truck on special road trop occasions. EV's are the best everyday drivers we all know that. If you need to range extend more than once a month then just go get an ICE,, just my opinion.

Also, consider than people may just want to have the generator in a trailer or RV and only use it when towing.

Keep in mind you don't have to use a gas generator. This Charge While Driving [CWD]kit will work with any battery pack that will fit in your bed. You can make your own pack using LFP batteries and a BMS and 15KW Pure-Sine-Wave inverter. You could charge your battery pack prior to your trip.... each way.

 

[ElectrifyingMe25]

Martin is about ready to take the first real road trip with this system towing, so look for that in a few weeks.

Keep in mind you don't have to use a gas generator. This Charge While Driving [CWD] kit will work with any battery pack that will fit in your bed. You can make your own pack using LFP batteries and a BMS and 15KW Pure-Sine-Wave inverter. You could charge your battery pack prior to your trip.... each way

 

[EliPNW]

Keep in mind you don't have to use a gas generator. This Charge While Driving [CWD] kit will work with any battery pack that will fit in your bed. You can make your own pack using LFP batteries and a BMS and 15KW Pure-Sine-Wave inverter. You could charge your battery pack prior to your trip.... each way

I have also seen people with solar panels on their tonneau cover, which you could utilize. It would of course not add much, but there is the cool factor, and I am assuming a use case for camping/off roading.

 

[chl]

Well, hmmm.

I can't see buying a $1k-to-$2k inverter generator plus gas or propane and oil plus the adaption costs (?) - vs - fast DC charging for $0.30-to-$0.60 per kWh unless I was long-distance driving very frequently in areas where the is no charging infrastructure, or didn't want to stop to charge for some reason (in a hurry).

Although this Westinghouse iGen11000DFc Inverter Generator is a relatively quiet generator (64dbA in spec) it still is going to make some noise which might get on one's nerves after a while?

No longer a zero tail pipe emissions truck when chugging along with a running generator.

So, 240V 30A output socket, L2 - what is the cost per kWh of the generator?

Ignoring the capital costs, 240V x 30A x 17hrs on about 8 gallons of gasoline $25.60 (avg about $3.20/gallon) so $25.60/(7.2kW x 17hrs)=about 20 cents/kWh about what you might pay for fast DC charging on the road.

(Note: shorter run time on propane is 9.8 hrs)

The predicted life span of the iGen11000DFc Inverter Generator is approximately 2,000 hours based on on-line info.

So estimate a total of 7.2kW x 2000hrs = 14400kWh.
Lifetime operating fuel costs (x 20 cents gasoline/kWh) = $2,880

Generator cost (Amazon price) = $1899.
$2880 + $1899 = $4779 --- $4779/2000hrs = $2.39 per hr cost of use, or
$2.39/7.2kWh = $0.33/kWh cost of use over the lifetime.

So the lifetime cost per kWh is at least 53 cents (20 cents gasoline + 33 cents use) depending on how many lifetime hours you get and the cost of gasoline per gallon.

Cost of the J1772 modification and cost of oil changes and other maintenance not factored in.

And some of your bed space is used by the generator footprint and weight is added to your payload.

The dry weight is 187lbs, add 8 gals gas and it's 187lbs + 48 lbs = 235lbs approx. full tank.

Just ballpark numbers.

 

[Adventureboy]

Not for me. If I need something like that, I'd have a different truck. Love my truck the way it is and nothing in the vote list captures that. A generator howling in the bed of the truck for hours on end would be extremely annoying. I'll take the extra coffee break - quietly.

 

[ZSC100]

Keep in mind you don't have to use a gas generator. This Charge While Driving [CWD] kit will work with any battery pack that will fit in your bed. You can make your own pack using LFP batteries and a BMS and 15KW Pure-Sine-Wave inverter. You could charge your battery pack prior to your trip.... each way

This is a great point, you are correct.

 

[ZSC100]

Well, hmmm.

I can't see buying a $1k-to-$2k inverter generator plus gas or propane and oil plus the adaption costs (?) - vs - fast DC charging for $0.30-to-$0.60 per kWh unless I was long-distance driving very frequently in areas where the is no charging infrastructure, or didn't want to stop to charge for some reason (in a hurry).

Although this Westinghouse iGen11000DFc Inverter Generator is a relatively quiet generator (64dbA in spec) it still is going to make some noise which might get on one's nerves after a while?

No longer a zero tail pipe emissions truck when chugging along with a running generator.

So, 240V 30A output socket, L2 - what is the cost per kWh of the generator?

Ignoring the capital costs, 240V x 30A x 17hrs on about 8 gallons of gasoline $25.60 (avg about $3.20/gallon) so $25.60/(7.2kW x 17hrs)=about 20 cents/kWh about what you might pay for fast DC charging on the road.

(Note: shorter run time on propane is 9.8 hrs)

The predicted life span of the iGen11000DFc Inverter Generator is approximately 2,000 hours based on on-line info.

So estimate a total of 7.2kW x 2000hrs = 14400kWh.
Lifetime operating fuel costs (x 20 cents gasoline/kWh) = $2,880

Generator cost (Amazon price) = $1899.
$2880 + $1899 = $4779 --- $4779/2000hrs = $2.39 per hr cost of use, or
$2.39/7.2kWh = $0.33/kWh cost of use over the lifetime.

So the lifetime cost per kWh is at least 53 cents (20 cents gasoline + 33 cents use) depending on how many lifetime hours you get and the cost of gasoline per gallon.

Cost of the J1772 modification and cost of oil changes and other maintenance not factored in.

And some of your bed space is used by the generator footprint and weight is added to your payload.

The dry weight is 187lbs, add 8 gals gas and it's 187lbs + 48 lbs = 235lbs approx. full tank.

Just ballpark numbers.

Believe me, I've spent many nights laying in bed ballparking all these numbers in my head. I don't see anything majorly off about your numbers at first glance. It is certainly a thing you'd only do If your use case nd circumstances fit the need. Or your range anxiety is too high. Even if 1% of owners are interested in this, That's over a thousand people.

 

[ZSC100]

You cite some great examples and say risk analysis by the end user. The problem is, that too many people a) aren't qualified to do risk analysis or b) don't give a rat's ass if their behavior impacts others. Many who tow over capacity never consider they may kill their family members or others when their vehicle and tow vehicle go out of control.

An example:

A relative of mine was very cheap. He would take his vehicle to the dealership for an oil change every 3,500 miles. One day his vehicle had a suspension failure in the steering linkage and went out of control at 20mph, coming to rest on a lawn. No one hurt, no damage, all is well. I called the dealership to ask how he could have had a recent oil change and they didn't notice this, and turn out they did and he refused the repair.

I then talked to my relative and asked why he didn't get it fixed, and he basically said no one got hurt. I pointed out that if it failed at 75mph on the interstate it could have been disastrous, and he said he lived to 85 and when his time comes... I said "what about the mother and 3 kids your car could have killed when you went out control?" He looked at me blankly.

Anytime I see a very dangerously overloaded vehicle, I dial 911 and report it. They have no right to endanger others.

I hope if you sell a product ultimately you put lots of big warning and caution messages about securing things and being safe.

Valid comments duly noted Rick, thanks.

 

[KurtsRPMGarage]

While I would realistically hardly ever need this, I would install the inlet strictly to shut down any EV truck nay sayers I may conversate with (sadly there are a lot in my line of work). Bravo by the way. Love the ingenuity and will follow your future updates with great interest.

 

[ZSC100]

While I would realistically hardly ever need this, I would install the inlet strictly to shut down any EV truck nay sayers I may conversate with (sadly there are a lot in my line of work). Bravo by the way. Love the ingenuity and will follow your future updates with great interest.

This is absolutely great. I have fought this fight both ways. Living in Oklahoma, formerly the oil capital of the world.

But at EV promotion events, I get shit from the EV community. Here's how I combat that. If this enables people to own a Lightning when they may not otherwise because of a range or charging desert issue. Then I have helped the EV movement by giving the option to range extend when needed. Which is rare, for me. It's about once a month for a weekend.

 

[Firn]

Plots showing the increase in range for a 10kw external feed, and a 19kw external (the ac charging limits of our trucks).

This is for 80% battery usage, not the 100% range.

I marked myself as interested but in truth would have major concerns about potential issues affecting the battery warranty.

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