Charging While Driving Works w/ Gas Generator in Bed (Range Extending for F-150 Lightning) - Testing

[Firn]

And I don't see any point in spending even $100 on a generator and gas. I spent $33k and a Tacoma to get away from all of that. Why in the world would I spend additional money to go back?!

I wouldn't consider it in any way as "going back", not anymore than eating one French fry is the same as consuming a super sized big Mac meal. We are only talking a very small portion of use and even when using the system its still only a minor inconvenience in order to reduce other inconviences. It still has 90% of the efficiency and all of the driving dynamics.

Regardless you are spending MORE money to have as bad, if not worse, negatives.

Again, to each their own, but what you described as negatives are nearly all still there plus significantly added time. If time is not of concern there is no reason to consider either approaches, just charge more often.

Sponsored

 

[ZSC100]

I read that thread too. There’s very little information I can use to evaluate whether it’s a product I would want. Claims don’t help. I need data.

Some lack of information is somewhat fine if they’re trying to beat any potential competitors to market. But it also leads to a lot of inconsistencies and for me a healthy distrust of the claims.

I’d like to see more actual hardware, a discussion of the process of how they are installing it. Are they splicing HV wires? Have they built a y-connector for some HV connector? What are the losses and ratings on those connectors? I’d also like to see an analysis of what the truck thinks has happened to the battery. For example, what was the starting SoH before the thousands of miles driven while testing and what was the SoH after? What are the various voltage leakages? What are the resistances the battery is reporting? What are the DTCs they’ve had and what are the ones likely to happen now that they’ve refined their product?

I would have an entire slew of additional questions after the first round are answered.



On the inverter cost side:

I wouldn’t pay the $2k for the inverter generator plus the extra mess of gas or propane, wasted time at two different refueling stations, inconsistent behaviors when the generator is on a slope or I’m at elevation, or under acceleration, etc., etc., etc… No, thanks. Again, I bought an EV to escape exactly all this.

I’d happily skip the generator and pay $5k for a 23 kWh battery + 16.5 kVA inverter. For that cost, I would get a silent, rock-solid and consistent output voltage from the auxiliary battery and a consistent proffered charge rate that isn’t dependent on external, uncontrollable variables. I would also be able to move the battery & inverter to my shop for use when I’m not traveling.

The battery+inverter I have my sights on has a volume of 0.22 m^3 while the generator in your test is 0.33 m^3, so the battery takes up less space in the bed. It’s 441 pounds, while the generator is 187.4 pounds + 48.8 pounds of gasoline = 236 pounds, plus another 30 pounds if I wanted to bring a spare 5 gallons just in case. The 175 pound difference would have minimal impact on my cargo capacity, especially considering I wouldn’t want anything else in the bed with a generator running.

Plus I can recharge the battery while I’m out in the boonies far from any source of fuel other than solar.

I really hope this is real and would love to buy the real deal, DIY install product if it makes it to market and is compatible with any EVSE.

Wow, since you wrote a novel and you seem to be a data nerd like most engineers I'll match you're intensity.

You want data? You're about to get it from Martin, he's a test engineer and he swims in data every day.

You want an install video, I think Martin is going to release that, he definitely was videoing a LOT of stuff, I'm sure he's going to time lapse a lot of it and highlight the important stuff. There are only 6 wires to tap to make this work, and 2 of them are the GIANT AC wires. We wired Martin's ER for 80A too, but this is where we want to be open and honest with everyone. We're not just going to go grab an industrial prime power diesel generator that can pump a continuous 19k in for unlimited time because that's not economic for anyone. We only want to test readily available, affordable solutions. We want as many people to be able to enjoy this as possible, I sound like John Hammond trying to sell JP,, LOL..


You want to see the hardware? It's in the video in it's entirety, it's a 2 port CAN router with some basic digital I/0, and 3 relays. That it,, it's literally that simple.

And Martin and I did a very professional job installing his. In fact we joked and pointed out throughout the install that we were we were doing a better job than the factory wire harnesses. But, yes, of course we spliced, this still very much in testing phase, we do want to make it 100% plug and play, but with Ford's Tier 1 supplier agreements it's going to be extremely difficult/costly to get it there. We'll probably end up with some kind of economic compromise to make it as plug and play as possible. It still would be possible to un-install everything and return it to factory by visual inspection, but it would take longer than just unplugging a few plugs and cutting zip ties.

You didn't think I meant: I drove thousands of miles in one setting did you? I've been testing this for the past few months over several trips, I live in Tulsa, I've been to Dallas, OKC, Arkansas, Branson MO, Kansas, basically lots of trips where I'd normally have to charge once with my SR, which was totally my initial motivation for doing this project before I got together with Martin, who had the same idea for a slightly different use case, towing.

I'm now discovering lots of different opinions and possible use cases for this kit which not yet has a name or any branding. Martin will likely take the reigns on that.

You want to know intricate details on what the BMS thinks about the truck getting virtually 3+mi/kWhr when it knows it's only getting 2, good luck. I can't tell you b/c this is my #1 gripe about Ford,,, they don't tell you, me, or anyone shit about how anything works technically. I'm sure you know that battery management is damn near it's own field of electrochemical engineering. Companies with countless Ph.D.s and engineers have spend millions of man-hours across the globe on how a BMS works both in hardware and software MO. For the most part, everyone keeps that secret, it sucks, but it's reality. In Ford's case specifically I think it's just to limit liability. If everything is a secret, no one can scrutinize it like you're trying to do here with this project. It's ok, I don't mind answering honestly and openly. I want everyone to see exactly what we're doing and why and I may be like, Ohhh yea, I didn't think about that, that's a great idea, or yea that doesn't make much sense for it to be that way

I'm an electrical engineer in the energy industry in the former oil capital of the world. I'm not a Ford lover per-se, but I have had several Ford trucks over the years; I reserved my lightning the day Jim Farley stood on the stage and unveiled the most amazing truck I've ever owned/experienced. Rivian was way too expensive for me, I'm a middle class engineer with 3 kids. I thought I was ordering a 39k EV truck that day, so this was the first chip in my relationship with Ford. I almost cancelled my reservation when a 2022 SR XLT 311a for $52k was the cheapest thing I could order. I actually would've if a friend wouldn't have promised me he'd buy it if I didn't like it. So, of course I was blown away and loved it and immediately helped pioneer mods like ACC, LKA, passive entry, PACM delete, blue cruise nag eliminate, etc. I technically investigated that Charging While Driving (CWD) would work back in 2023, I was 95% sure it would and started to gather parts, building/researching middle man tools, software, etc. As I was literally weeks away from splicing wires and dedicating a weekend with a close embedded design engineer friend a battery module failed on my truck at 50kmi. So, the dealer had my truck for almost a month, 29days actually. Here's where you're going to fall in love with me. I wrote numerous scathing emails to everyone at Ford I could get an email address to. I wanted to know details and data just like you. I wanted to know a full detailed health report on all my modules, and the module they were putting in my truck. I'm not talking about the basic cell voltage battery report that FDRS will give you. I'm talking about a full battery test on a test stand with NIST calibrated equipment signed by a professional engineer and some kind of promise that they would put a module back in within a % of health/performance of my other modules. Guess what I got ,,crickets, absolutely nothing. I got a that's none of your business, we'll fix the truck and make it drive again, that's all were obligated to do. So, I raised hell again, I damn near wrote technical papers saying why they were acting in bad faith not proving that they were matching modules with traceable paperwork. I put out a poll on FB about details of owner's module replacements and it got taken down by a Ford admin in the group in 2hrs. Eventually they offered me 35kmi of extended warranty, that, actually did prove to be valuable to replace some lighting issues shortly later at 55kmi, half my front lightbar went out.

Is this reply long enough yet.....
At 90kmi another module went out. After 2 weeks, waiting I requested a buyback, denied immediately by the BEV customer care interface, just like most everyone who's tried that way, right? Ford does NOT freely give buybacks, they force you to go through your states BBB or sue them. Meanwhile 2 friends in Tulsa, who I convinced to both buy Lightnings, also were on their 2nd module replacements And this dealer to date has done hundreds of module replacements. They have a few really good EV techs which I was on first name basis with. I went to the dealer and watched them work, I went out and physically touched every part. I have nothing, but good things to say about this dealer "Riverside Ford of Tulsa" Ohhh, and they had me a loaner all 3 times MachEs and Lightnings the ENTIRE TIME my truck was in the shop 3 times for work total of like 60+ days. So, by this time I had met Martin and having confidence I could do the battery work myself after my 100kmi EV powertrain warranty I just bought a full SR salvage battery and said the hell with Ford. Next time this thing breaks Martin and I will yank the battery out and I'll fix it myself. I started working on CWD immediately right before my 100kmi warranty was out. I figured I was in the perfect circumstances to go for it and if I was going to break something, I'd tape it back up like OEM and Riverside Ford wouldn't blink an eye b/c they'd already replaced 2 modules. So, long story short I started reversing engineering everything about the charger and battery. I built a full CAN database of all messages. I denied CAN ids, spoofed them, ran thousands of captures through ChatGPT and wrote a piece of software to filter and systematically analyze the HS1 CAN bus while looking at OBD diagnostic data and relating CAN ID's to DTCs. Then I middle-man attacked all the modules involved in charging. After I had a decent understanding of where messages originated and ended up. I again used ChatGPT to reverse engineer every detail about how the charger, PCM, BECM, GWM, and telematics module communicate to charge the truck. It was honestly scary how easy it is to make the truck charge while driving. And we all know Ford has what I consider to be an indefensible patent on a range extending generator. In fact, I could technically prove that things are designed specifically for this to work and just hidden. As I discovered these things the joy of discovery that ensued was all worth it. This is how I know I'm a nerd engineer, I'd rather be up coding at midnight and discovering hidden Ford Easter eggs in programming and network comms than out at the bar with friends.

Sorry this story might be boring to some people, and a lot of my tests are just early real discovery and testing some of which I videoed to start conversations like this and get a more wholistic view of how people might use this and what to be thinking about releasing with the first version that can be as useful for as many people as possible. Don't get me wrong, I want to, need to, make money on this, both Martin and I. But equally we want this to be affordable and available for real middle class people like us. That will ultimately help adoption of EVs, even if it's at the sacrifice of giving people the ability to run an ICE on road trips. EV's are absolutely amazing for every day driving, which is 90%+ of the use case for 90%+ of people. I wasn't even counting on people like you saying I'd use this with batteries.

Lastly, on SoH: my SoH after the 90kmi module replacement was 95.0%, this was alarming to me b/c going in, even weirdly with the bad module it was 96% at 90kmi. So, I was like, hey WTF, you replaced a module and now my SoH is 1% lower. Again, they didn't care or even know what to tell me. I was like what even is the SoH, what does it mean exactly,,, blank stares from all the EV certified mechanics, they have no clue just like all of us. How much battery is Ford really reserving at the top and bottom, will they ever release it to us. Does a secret algorighm slowly release it to use over time to thwart warranty claims. Does it stop releasing after 100kmi? No body knows shit, but a few rockstar engineers at Ford.

Some point around 100kmi it jumped up to 95.5% and that's where it's been for the past 20kmi. That doesn't make much sense, but I'll take 0.5% If you think about it scientifically, CWD is actually helping the battery, health wise. The truck draws around 30kW at highway speeds, with CWD of 10kW, it's only drawing 20kW from the battery. This is better for the battery, the BMS does not balance cells while driving (I don't think), in the same way it doesn't balance cells while DC fast charging in the meat of the curve unless it needs to do so on the tail end as it slows way down, but most people stop at 80% SoC once the economics of fast charging don't make sense anymore. The BMS does its routine balancing over time while L2 charging every night(with the truck off). So, there won't likely be any of the juicy data/proof you're looking for I'm afraid b/c without knowing more about the BMS algorithm, metrics stored, how they are gathered, full capability of the balancing hardware, it would be impossible to formulate scientific test plans for this. We can just use logic like I mentioned above and look at the few non-descript PIDs that Ford does give us. I plan on keeping this truck until the next generation comes out, It'll be fully paid off by then and it's likely the most tricked out SR XLT in the world as far as tech mods go

I'd actually sell it for $25k right now if anyone is interested and wants the $4k tax credit, so that would be $21k. But time is ticking b/c I'm going to buy a new one and have to close by the 30th to get my $7500

 

[ElectrifyingMe25]

Wow, since you wrote a novel and you seem to be a data nerd like most engineers I'll match you're intensity.

You want data? You're about to get it from Martin, he's a test engineer and he swims in data every day.

You want an install video, I think Martin is going to release that, he definitely was videoing a LOT of stuff, I'm sure he's going to time lapse a lot of it and highlight the important stuff. There are only 6 wires to tap to make this work, and 2 of them are the GIANT AC wires. We wired Martin's ER for 80A too, but this is where we want to be open and honest with everyone. We're not just going to go grab an industrial prime power diesel generator that can pump a continuous 19k in for unlimited time because that's not economic for anyone. We only want to test readily available, affordable solutions. We want as many people to be able to enjoy this as possible, I sound like John Hammond trying to sell JP,, LOL..


You want to see the hardware? It's in the video in it's entirety, it's a 2 port CAN router with some basic digital I/0, and 3 relays. That it,, it's literally that simple.

And Martin and I did a very professional job installing his. In fact we joked and pointed out throughout the install that we were we were doing a better job than the factory wire harnesses. But, yes, of course we spliced, this still very much in testing phase, we do want to make it 100% plug and play, but with Ford's Tier 1 supplier agreements it's going to be extremely difficult/costly to get it there. We'll probably end up with some kind of economic compromise to make it as plug and play as possible. It still would be possible to un-install everything and return it to factory by visual inspection, but it would take longer than just unplugging a few plugs and cutting zip ties.

You didn't think I meant: I drove thousands of miles in one setting did you? I've been testing this for the past few months over several trips, I live in Tulsa, I've been to Dallas, OKC, Arkansas, Branson MO, Kansas, basically lots of trips where I'd normally have to charge once with my SR, which was totally my initial motivation for doing this project before I got together with Martin, who had the same idea for a slightly different use case, towing.

I'm now discovering lots of different opinions and possible use cases for this kit which not yet has a name or any branding. Martin will likely take the reigns on that.

You want to know intricate details on what the BMS thinks about the truck getting virtually 3+mi/kWhr when it knows it's only getting 2, good luck. I can't tell you b/c this is my #1 gripe about Ford,,, they don't tell you, me, or anyone shit about how anything works technically. I'm sure you know that battery management is damn near it's own field of electrochemical engineering. Companies with countless Ph.D.s and engineers have spend millions of man-hours across the globe on how a BMS works both in hardware and software MO. For the most part, everyone keeps that secret, it sucks, but it's reality. In Ford's case specifically I think it's just to limit liability. If everything is a secret, no one can scrutinize it like you're trying to do here with this project. It's ok, I don't mind answering honestly and openly. I want everyone to see exactly what we're doing and why and I may be like, Ohhh yea, I didn't think about that, that's a great idea, or yea that doesn't make much sense for it to be that way

I'm an electrical engineer in the energy industry in the former oil capital of the world. I'm not a Ford lover per-se, but I have had several Ford trucks over the years; I reserved my lightning the day Jim Farley stood on the stage and unveiled the most amazing truck I've ever owned/experienced. Rivian was way too expensive for me, I'm a middle class engineer with 3 kids. I thought I was ordering a 39k EV truck that day, so this was the first chip in my relationship with Ford. I almost cancelled my reservation when a 2022 SR XLT 311a for $52k was the cheapest thing I could order. I actually would've if a friend wouldn't have promised me he'd buy it if I didn't like it. So, of course I was blown away and loved it and immediately helped pioneer mods like ACC, LKA, passive entry, PACM delete, blue cruise nag eliminate, etc. I technically investigated that Charging While Driving (CWD) would work back in 2023, I was 95% sure it would and started to gather parts, building/researching middle man tools, software, etc. As I was literally weeks away from splicing wires and dedicating a weekend with a close embedded design engineer friend a battery module failed on my truck at 50kmi. So, the dealer had my truck for almost a month, 29days actually. Here's where you're going to fall in love with me. I wrote numerous scathing emails to everyone at Ford I could get an email address to. I wanted to know details and data just like you. I wanted to know a full detailed health report on all my modules, and the module they were putting in my truck. I'm not talking about the basic cell voltage battery report that FDRS will give you. I'm talking about a full battery test on a test stand with NIST calibrated equipment signed by a professional engineer and some kind of promise that they would put a module back in within a % of health/performance of my other modules. Guess what I got ,,crickets, absolutely nothing. I got a that's none of your business, we'll fix the truck and make it drive again, that's all were obligated to do. So, I raised hell again, I damn near wrote technical papers saying why they were acting in bad faith not proving that they were matching modules with traceable paperwork. I put out a poll on FB about details of owner's module replacements and it got taken down by a Ford admin in the group in 2hrs. Eventually they offered me 35kmi of extended warranty, that, actually did prove to be valuable to replace some lighting issues shortly later at 55kmi, half my front lightbar went out.

Is this reply long enough yet.....
At 90kmi another module went out. After 2 weeks, waiting I requested a buyback, denied immediately by the BEV customer care interface, just like most everyone who's tried that way, right? Ford does NOT freely give buybacks, they force you to go through your states BBB or sue them. Meanwhile 2 friends in Tulsa, who I convinced to both buy Lightnings, also were on their 2nd module replacements And this dealer to date has done hundreds of module replacements. They have a few really good EV techs which I was on first name basis with. I went to the dealer and watched them work, I went out and physically touched every part. I have nothing, but good things to say about this dealer "Riverside Ford of Tulsa" Ohhh, and they had me a loaner all 3 times MachEs and Lightnings the ENTIRE TIME my truck was in the shop 3 times for work total of like 60+ days. So, by this time I had met Martin and having confidence I could do the battery work myself after my 100kmi EV powertrain warranty I just bought a full SR salvage battery and said the hell with Ford. Next time this thing breaks Martin and I will yank the battery out and I'll fix it myself. I started working on CWD immediately right before my 100kmi warranty was out. I figured I was in the perfect circumstances to go for it and if I was going to break something, I'd tape it back up like OEM and Riverside Ford wouldn't blink an eye b/c they'd already replaced 2 modules. So, long story short I started reversing engineering everything about the charger and battery. I built a full CAN database of all messages. I denied CAN ids, spoofed them, ran thousands of captures through ChatGPT and wrote a piece of software to filter and systematically analyze the HS1 CAN bus while looking at OBD diagnostic data and relating CAN ID's to DTCs. Then I middle-man attacked all the modules involved in charging. After I had a decent understanding of where messages originated and ended up. I again used ChatGPT to reverse engineer every detail about how the charger, PCM, BECM, GWM, and telematics module communicate to charge the truck. It was honestly scary how easy it is to make the truck charge while driving. And we all know Ford has what I consider to be an indefensible patent on a range extending generator. In fact, I could technically prove that things are designed specifically for this to work and just hidden. As I discovered these things the joy of discovery that ensued was all worth it. This is how I know I'm a nerd engineer, I'd rather be up coding at midnight and discovering hidden Ford Easter eggs in programming and network comms than out at the bar with friends.

Sorry this story might be boring to some people, and a lot of my tests are just early real discovery and testing some of which I videoed to start conversations like this and get a more wholistic view of how people might use this and what to be thinking about releasing with the first version that can be as useful for as many people as possible. Don't get me wrong, I want to, need to, make money on this, both Martin and I. But equally we want this to be affordable and available for real middle class people like us. That will ultimately help adoption of EVs, even if it's at the sacrifice of giving people the ability to run an ICE on road trips. EV's are absolutely amazing for every day driving, which is 90%+ of the use case for 90%+ of people. I wasn't even counting on people like you saying I'd use this with batteries.

Lastly, on SoH: my SoH after the 90kmi module replacement was 95.0%, this was alarming to me b/c going in, even weirdly with the bad module it was 96% at 90kmi. So, I was like, hey WTF, you replaced a module and now my SoH is 1% lower. Again, they didn't care or even know what to tell me. I was like what even is the SoH, what does it mean exactly,,, blank stares from all the EV certified mechanics, they have no clue just like all of us. How much battery is Ford really reserving at the top and bottom, will they ever release it to us. Does a secret algorighm slowly release it to use over time to thwart warranty claims. Does it stop releasing after 100kmi? No body knows shit, but a few rockstar engineers at Ford.

Some point around 100kmi it jumped up to 95.5% and that's where it's been for the past 20kmi. That doesn't make much sense, but I'll take 0.5% If you think about it scientifically, CWD is actually helping the battery, health wise. The truck draws around 30kW at highway speeds, with CWD of 10kW, it's only drawing 20kW from the battery. This is better for the battery, the BMS does not balance cells while driving (I don't think), in the same way it doesn't balance cells while DC fast charging in the meat of the curve unless it needs to do so on the tail end as it slows way down, but most people stop at 80% SoC once the economics of fast charging don't make sense anymore. The BMS does its routine balancing over time while L2 charging every night(with the truck off). So, there won't likely be any of the juicy data/proof you're looking for I'm afraid b/c without knowing more about the BMS algorithm, metrics stored, how they are gathered, full capability of the balancing hardware, it would be impossible to formulate scientific test plans for this. We can just use logic like I mentioned above and look at the few non-descript PIDs that Ford does give us. I plan on keeping this truck until the next generation comes out, It'll be fully paid off by then and it's likely the most tricked out SR XLT in the world as far as tech mods go

I'd actually sell it for $25k right now if anyone is interested and wants the $4k tax credit, so that would be $21k. But time is ticking b/c I'm going to buy a new one and have to close by the 30th to get my $7500

Great write-up about how you got started in the project for developing the CWD. You just made me and countless other engineers appreciate what you're doing even more.

Seems like you are being lead into this project by the hand of serendipity. You are doing exactly what I like to do. I am an electrical engineer too with decades of industrial experience and project experience.

I will likely buy one of your kits when you get it ready for prime time. I want a charge port in the bed and not have to use the one on the side of the fender. I think your approach is spot on.

Keep up the great work, and know I'm cheering for you.

I may be interested in one of your $1000.00 test kits and being a beta tester. I'll have to learn more about what's involved before I commit.

Take Care.

 

[I <3 My Lightning]

I read through the thread and yes, having your choice of power source to charge from would be best.

The use case scenarios and the gripes I get.

Towing... I want to see you tow a lighting with a lighting and with your system I want the added power to come from the lighting being towed on the trailer.

 

[chl]

Believe me, I've spent many nights laying in bed ballparking all these numbers in my head. I don't see anything majorly off about your numbers at first glance. It is certainly a thing you'd only do If your use case nd circumstances fit the need. Or your range anxiety is too high. Even if 1% of owners are interested in this, That's over a thousand people.

Yes, I agree, it might be right for some people's needs, I can see that.

If the infrastructure money for EV chargers doesn't get freed up, there may be stretches of charger dead zones out on the highway where something like this might be the best option.

I can remember the anxiety I felt running on fumes "in the old days" on some trips where gas stations were few and far between. So EV range anxiety is still a thing and I can relate.

Hopefully in the next 3 years, with battery improvements and more EV adoption, the infrastructure will grow even without the gov. subsidies.

 

[bsilvertab]

Thank you for all the work you do on this project! I would be willing to beta test on my 23 ER with a few more details. Range is a problem for me primarily during the winter months. This would solve most of that problem.

 

[ZSC100]

Thank you for all the work you do on this project! I would be willing to beta test on my 23 ER with a few more details. Range is a problem for me primarily during the winter months. This would solve most of that problem.

You'll be happy to know I've already made provisions for valve control to add a heat exchanger to utilize the waste heat from the generator's exhaust. This will allow people to get all the generator's electrical power and not waste any of the precious electricity on heat. I just haven't needed or been able to really test this b/c of the weather in Tulsa. As soon as it starts getting cold I'll exploring this. I too feel the pain in the winter months. Utilizing waste heat from the ICE while driving will actually give better results than using the AC in the summer b/c you won't be wasting any on cabin conditioning. You also won't be wasting any on battery conditioning and can actually warm up your battery with the heat too. I actually think this will open up a huge market for this in the North. I've yet to figure out exactly how I'm going to demark the truck's closed loops with the generator exhaust heat exchanger and how I'll modulate it. It will have it's own CAN control module and will be 100% independent of the CWD product b/c I've had people asking for a while now for this system to use the little diesel heaters like this with it:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/VEVOR-D...pe-Space-Heater-ZCJRQLS12V8KWCO9JV9/327083816

In fact I'll prob start developing this in the next month as the weather cools off here in Tulsa. And be testing it standalone with the heater since that's how the concept was initiated. Sometime recently I was like, ding, I've got hot exhaust I can be using here.

 

[Firn]

You'll be happy to know I've already made provisions for valve control to add a heat exchanger to utilize the waste heat from the generator's exhaust. This will allow people to get all the generator's electrical power and not waste any of the precious electricity on heat. I just haven't needed or been able to really test this b/c of the weather in Tulsa. As soon as it starts getting cold I'll exploring this. I too feel the pain in the winter months. Utilizing waste heat from the ICE while driving will actually give better results than using the AC in the summer b/c you won't be wasting any on cabin conditioning. You also won't be wasting any on battery conditioning and can actually warm up your battery with the heat too. I actually think this will open up a huge market for this in the North. I've yet to figure out exactly how I'm going to demark the truck's closed loops with the generator exhaust heat exchanger and how I'll modulate it. It will have it's own CAN control module and will be 100% independent of the CWD product b/c I've had people asking for a while now for this system to use the little diesel heaters like this with it:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/VEVOR-D...pe-Space-Heater-ZCJRQLS12V8KWCO9JV9/327083816

In fact I'll prob start developing this in the next month as the weather cools off here in Tulsa. And be testing it standalone with the heater since that's how the concept was initiated. Sometime recently I was like, ding, I've got hot exhaust I can be using here.

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/diesel-heater-new-video-of-it-running.12863/

If you had not yet seen this thread.

 

[ZSC100]

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/diesel-heater-new-video-of-it-running.12863/

If you had not yet seen this thread.

I have not. Awesome, thx

 

[Grumpy2]

In fact I'll prob start developing this in the next month as the weather cools off here in Tulsa. And be testing it standalone with the heater since that's how the concept was initiated.

This would be very interesting, it seems there could be less intrusive solutions that would allow greater range in cold weather without using battery capacity.

 

[Username Not Found]

Love that you are doing something to create more options for Lightning owners (unlike the keyboard warriors). I understand the difficulty getting a factory style to plug between the existing connectors but that would make for a more compelling product rather than having to tap any wiring. The warranty voiding factor and risk of improper install can be scary.

A former forum member and YouTuber had created a range extender with a Tesla battery on a trailer, but he was tight lipped about what connections he made to make that work.

I think he left the forum after his Lightning got stolen/torched and sold the trailer with the knowledge of how to connect it. Not sure how similar your connection would be to his but it was interesting nonetheless.

I also find it ironic that people suggest they are too good to use gas now that they have an EV (annoyance of gas station visits aside)... I hope they're saying it in jest or they have their own solar array because there's something like 60% of the US grid that comes from Coal or Natural Gas. Not to mention the impact of battery manufacturing. It also spreads and reinforces the negative stereotype of EV owners feeling like they somehow have a moral high ground on ICE car owners (reference:South Park Smug Alert! episode). I hope you ignore their unhelpful and counterproductive noise. I would venture a guess that this forum isn't the best place to truly gauge your potential market as most of us bought the truck because we are able to make it work in at least 90% of scenarios, like you have stated. There are still people on the sidelines waiting for a solution to their use case. It would seem a company like Edison Motors proves that there is a lot of potential interest in something like this; with their (still in progress) retrofit system that has a similar but much more involved idea of taking an old truck and turning it into an EV with a diesel generator. Also, adjacent is the RAM REV which seems to have a lot of interest but we'll see if people show up for it. I also like that your system would potentially give someone the option to package a generator or additional battery into a different form factor such as a Truck Box, trailer, or creative use the "frunk" (probably more in the way of batteries for the latter) if they need it more permanently.

Keep up the good work, very interested to hear more when Martin's video comes out.

 

[Coffee4matt]

Fascinating!

 

[potato]

I'm kind of in the camp that this would not be needed for the vast majority of use cases. But intrigued by the possibilities. If I wanted to drive to Tuktoyaktuk, today, I would definitely need a generator. My current thought would be to charge while stopped, of course, since that's all these trucks can do off the shelf. But doing some of it while driving might be better.

I'm slightly skeptical that the power could be added fast enough to make a meaningful difference while towing. Regular highway driving is 30-40 kW. Towing, that would be 60-80 kW. Supplying ~10 kW from a generator seems like a pretty minor improvement... It could help when crossing a charging desert like my hypothetical drive to Tuk of course, but in the real world, is that really an issue? Chargers are getting more common. As time goes on it will be less and less of an issue.

My other big worry is if you're doing a MITM, what if Ford does an update to encrypt communications on the bus.

On the other hand. An LFP battery pack in the bed would be a pretty sweet range extender if if was convenient to hook up, like your solution is meant to be.

 

[ZSC100]

I'm kind of in the camp that this would not be needed for the vast majority of use cases. But intrigued by the possibilities. If I wanted to drive to Tuktoyaktuk, today, I would definitely need a generator. My current thought would be to charge while stopped, of course, since that's all these trucks can do off the shelf. But doing some of it while driving might be better.

I'm slightly skeptical that the power could be added fast enough to make a meaningful difference while towing. Regular highway driving is 30-40 kW. Towing, that would be 60-80 kW. Supplying ~10 kW from a generator seems like a pretty minor improvement... It could help when crossing a charging desert like my hypothetical drive to Tuk of course, but in the real world, is that really an issue? Chargers are getting more common. As time goes on it will be less and less of an issue.

My other big worry is if you're doing a MITM, what if Ford does an update to encrypt communications on the bus.

On the other hand. An LFP battery pack in the bed would be a pretty sweet range extender if if was convenient to hook up, like your solution is meant to be.

Great questions. Regardless of how Ford reacts to Charge While Driving they will NOT do anything to thwart it with programming. Any changes like that would involve multiple modules across multiple vendors and the risk of side effects for the general truck population would be huge. They already have a giant cluster fuck that is OTA, trying to change anything that isn't absolutely necessary, especially with the HS1 CAN bus is out of the question.

Regarding rural charging dessert destinations, like camp sites, or remote locations without power I have seen interested in this to mainly charge at the destination, not necessarily CWD, but why not do both right This is particularly appealing to RV's with built in generators that could have an EVSE mounted with the charging cable reaching up to the bed for charging.

Currently I don't really have the programming for making the bed port active for normal stationary charging, but that is possible and it involves a minor hardware change. I'm working on it.

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