Dealers Rejecting Lightning Reservation Transfers

[RickLightning]

Other than the fact that, as of 2010, AL had 3.8M drivers whereas CA had 23.7M.

Not sure how long it will take them to calculate data from the newer census. https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2010/dl1c.cfm

Nothing stopping Alabama from becoming a ZEV state, is there?

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[TaxmanHog]

Anyone curious should look at old horizon pictures...of what little was visible anyway.

As a kid of the 60/70's I remember those photos and wild conspiracy nuts complaining about very basic emission systems, catalytic converters and unleaded fuel coming on the market, LA definitely looks better today than way back in the day!

 

[ExCivilian]

Nothing stopping Alabama from becoming a ZEV state, is there?

Are you asking me a serious question as to what might stop somewhere, such as Alabama, from modeling its emissions and incentive programs on California?

Regardless, whether AL does or doesn't become a ZEV state is relatively irrelevant given its lack of population density. Carting a vehicle from a population dense state to one that isn't, like AL, on the basis of the owner having solar panels does nothing for the overall problem of emissions that ZEV states are trying to address. The US is not one giant fish bowl where all the emissions are collectively created and addressed across the country.

 

[RickLightning]

I was addressing the issue of car companies sending vehicles to ZEV states, and noting that any state can become one and then get allocation. Alabama is more dense than Vermont, no?

 

[TaxmanHog]

Alabama is more dense than Vermont, no?

It is: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density

 

[ExCivilian]

Alabama is more dense than Vermont, no?

Yes, it's more dense than Vermont but the politics are obviously different. ZEV states are trying to reduce emissions in their states, but they are primarily concerned about their denser urban centers--not the entire state. For example, even in CA we still have rural counties exempt from state-wide smog inspections. Vermont doesn't have that urban density issue, but it clearly has other reasons to align itself with California's political, environmental, and economic positions.

As I wrote earlier, emissions (and their associated issues) are not equally dispersed throughout the country. If a ZEV state is trying to reduce emissions by removing 100 ICE vehicles from their roads, someone in a non-ZEV state doesn't assist that issue by taking one of the ZEV-destined vehicles to a different state.

The premise by the other poster you said you agreed with claimed that ZEV is "meaningless" and CA's positions regarding the environment are just empty talking points--neither of which are objectively true. You said there was "nothing to disagree" with...so I pointed out that both of you seem to be ignoring the reality that CA had over 6 times the drivers AL had at last count. It doesn't matter that one person has a bunch of solar panels or that the state is supporting green power sources...the vehicle emissions a ZEV state is trying to solve are serious issues and not simply "talk." Vermont's stance is irrelevant--Hawaii can hop on board as can anyone; that wouldn't detract from the very real consequences of emissions in dense urban areas that ZEV states are trying to address and that make ZEV policies very much not "meaningless."

 

[ExCivilian]

It is: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density

I'm not sure what point was being made comparing Vermont to Alabama.

Virginia, which is where the OP is stationed, has twice the density and drivers as Alabama.

 

[jfried]

Ford's push for more electric vehicles on the road is a national strategy not a state by state one. Currently the car market is upside down but at some point it should stabilize. Let's see what happens to those dealers that have to then rely mostly on local revenue and can't move additional units. Local buyers does not mean automatically loyal, no one can guarantee they will come back. Blocking buyers from non ZEV states access to EVs is not a smart decision. I would argue that in many cases because buyers are from a non ZEV there is a lack of inventory in their home state and there is a higher need/demand. The goal should be to get as many of these reduced emission vehicles on the road period.

I am glad that Ford will take better control of all their EV sales in the future. The rules or purchase guidelines should not be up the dealer to decide as they see fit, when they see fit.

Why is that a bad decision? If I recall correctly, the ZEV programs (and associated incentives) require the vehicles to get registered in that state.

Ford is going to get every one of these reduced emissions vehicles out on the road regardless for the first year or two... there is a lack of inventory everywhere. This isn't the olden days where a dealer is flush with inventory, treating it as "a sale is a sale-- gottta keep the inventory moving". Just like with ADMs, the dealers need to make sure that they make their limited supply of hot vehicles count for more than the sold sticker.... whether that's ADM, or delighting a local customer.

As for the dealer -- honestly, kudos to them for being so upfront about it. You have a lot better chance at building a lifelong relationship of future vehicle purchases with somebody that is in your home market, than somebody from hundreds of miles away.

 

[RickLightning]

Yes, it's more dense than Vermont but the politics are obviously different. ZEV states are trying to reduce emissions in their states, but they are primarily concerned about their denser urban centers--not the entire state. For example, even in CA we still have rural counties exempt from state-wide smog inspections. Vermont doesn't have that urban density issue, but it clearly has other reasons to align itself with California's political, environmental, and economic positions.

As I wrote earlier, emissions (and their associated issues) are not equally dispersed throughout the country. If a ZEV state is trying to reduce emissions by removing 100 ICE vehicles from their roads, someone in a non-ZEV state doesn't assist that issue by taking one of the ZEV-destined vehicles to a different state.

The premise by the other poster you said you agreed with claimed that ZEV is "meaningless" and CA's positions regarding the environment are just empty talking points--neither of which are objectively true. You said there was "nothing to disagree" with...so I pointed out that both of you seem to be ignoring the reality that CA had over 6 times the drivers AL had at last count. It doesn't matter that one person has a bunch of solar panels or that the state is supporting green power sources...the vehicle emissions a ZEV state is trying to solve are serious issues and not simply "talk." Vermont's stance is irrelevant--Hawaii can hop on board as can anyone; that wouldn't detract from the very real consequences of emissions in dense urban areas that ZEV states are trying to address and that make ZEV policies very much not "meaningless."

Appreciate the info. I was more agreeing with all the solar he described. As someone living in a non-ZEV state, didn't even know the term until a few months ago.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I'm not sure what point was being made comparing Vermont to Alabama.

Virginia, which is where the OP is stationed, has twice the density and drivers as Alabama.

Read the first sentence you wrote in post 15, (is that a TYPO) did you intend to write LA instead of AL? that is why Rick and I commented about Alabama......

It's an example of low population density states one where ZEV incentives are available and one where they are not, and yes ....POLITICS.... is the reason.

 

[CarboTaniumF-150]

Why is that a bad decision? If I recall correctly, the ZEV programs (and associated incentives) require the vehicles to get registered in that state.

Ford is going to get every one of these reduced emissions vehicles out on the road regardless for the first year or two... there is a lack of inventory everywhere. This isn't the olden days where a dealer is flush with inventory, treating it as "a sale is a sale-- gottta keep the inventory moving". Just like with ADMs, the dealers need to make sure that they make their limited supply of hot vehicles count for more than the sold sticker.... whether that's ADM, or delighting a local customer.

As for the dealer -- honestly, kudos to them for being so upfront about it. You have a lot better chance at building a lifelong relationship of future vehicle purchases with somebody that is in your home market, than somebody from hundreds of miles away.

I don't think it's a smart decision by the dealer because of the message they are sending now. These are probably the same dealers that love to take out of state buyer's money when tons of trucks used to sit on the lot before. If Ford would have wanted this to be done this way with restrictions, they would have made it so. They would not allow or encourage me to "shop" around. Yes, I have the proof that I have called Ford Marketing several times and this is the advice I have been given. In order for this ordering process to be clear and effective, we all must play by the same guidelines.

As far as ADMs, I am strongly against it. Now dealers are claiming they "must" do this to keep the lights on. What about when the car market had a surplus of cars and they tacked on ADMs because it was a "hot" vehicle. I know this very well because I purchased a Shelby GT350. Marking up a vehicle is wrong on principle, is greedy, and selfish. It keeps someone that maybe really wants a car from buying simply because a dealer determined that it if someone wants it bad enough, they must pay the extra money. I'm not rich like that and I refuse to overpay a business. There is a ton of research that goes into a manufacturer accurately pricing a vehicle to have a dealer destroy it. It defeats the purpose of the targeted audience.

I do agree with you on the part on building relationships with a local dealer. I wish I could, I am not from here, just serving for another 2 years before I am given orders to go somewhere else on duty. Local to me most dealers around here will get very low numbers of allocations or will be asking for price adjustments. Once gain, I play within the guidelines and rather go somewhere with more vehicles are sent and sold at MSRP only. Hope things work out for me eventually.

 

[Trick]

They may need to reset the order process

My order is stuck in the dealers que who rejected my original order, called Ford 6 times to transfer the order to dealers that agreed accept it but I keep getting the below when I log into the system. Each time it shows the new dealer name. This is one of the dealers that agreed to take it. I didnt even get a chance to place the order with the new dealer and they did nothing on there end.

 

[ExCivilian]

Read the first sentence you wrote in post 15, (is that a TYPO) did you intend to write LA instead of AL? that is why Rick and I commented about Alabama......

It's an example of low population density states one where ZEV incentives are available and one where they are not, and yes ....POLITICS.... is the reason.

It wasn't a typo. I didn't question why we're talking about AL--the OP is from AL and wants to take his EV back there from Virginia. It seems like Rick thought the OP was from Vermont and that's why it was brought up.

Taking the EV from Virginia (a high driver density ZEV state) to AL (a low driver density, non-ZEV state) would be counterproductive to the ZEV initiative that Virginia is doing. While true that it wouldn't make much difference if the OP took an EV from Vermont to Alabama, that wasn't the plan or discussion.

 

[rdr854]

I'm not sure what point was being made comparing Vermont to Alabama.

Virginia, which is where the OP is stationed, has twice the density and drivers as Alabama.

And, Virginia has already passed legislation to become a ZEV state.

 

[TaxmanHog]

And, Virginia has already passed legislation to become a ZEV state.

Cool, I will note that on my tracker in future updates
https://www.atlasevhub.com/news/virginia-becomes-13th-state-to-join-the-zev-program

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