Fighting with dealer

[chl]

You should file a complaint with Ford, although in my experience they won't do anything to hold the dealership accountable.

In Colorado (I'm there too), once an auto sale is signed and you take delivery, the deal is 100% done. They can't go back and renegotiate the deal. If they screwed up and misrepresented the rebate, that's on them. They can't hold your title for ransom, they can't ask for more money, it's done. Do not give them the money. Tell them you expect the title to be delivered to you if you paid cash, or to your lien holder/lender if you financed and they have no right to hold it. You're probably done dealing with your salesperson at this point, or should be, and you should communicate directly to the dealership GM. Only communicate via email so there is written account of everything, nothing verbal over the phone.

The Colorado Dept. of Revenue has a specific automotive division to report to. Also file a complaint with the State Attorney General's office for automotive fraud. In the mean time, do everything else as you normally should like getting your plates/registration, etc.. If they're not releasing title work to enable that, tell the DMV as well so you get proper temporary/ extension/ etc..

If you still don't get anywhere, I can recommend a Denver-based attorney that deals with this sort of shit. Feel free to DM me. I went through a bad deal late last year, trying to buy a '22 Lariat ER demo/ mannequin.

EDIT> Want to add a bit more about the deal being done and the rebate being their problem. It is *THEIR* responsibility to understand and offer these rebates. Ford makes it pretty clear. By them trying to pull this stunt now means that they misrepresented the deal and that is unacceptable. This is a "yo-yo" sales practice and outlawed most everywhere. Once the paperwork is signed, you drive the truck off the lot, the deal is done. Unless their is some provision in the sales paperwork that allows them to re-verify such things, which there is not or should not be, because it's not allowed here, then it's a done deal. The only way for them to get that $7500 back without straining the law and screwing with you in an unjust way is to request, if you're willing, to completely unwind the deal in which you give back the truck, they give back your trade and any down payment and all that.. Nope...

I agree with the above.

By get back the $7500, do you (the original poster) mean they gave you a price with $7500 discount off MSRP? Or did they give you $7500 cash/check at signing?

Either way it was in the deal as a discount, it SHOULD show up on a line on the sales contract.

Once the paperwork is singed by both parties, it generally matters not what anyone said orally beforehand unless there was a serious material misrepresentation (lie) constituting fraud, a rare exception, in most cases it is buyer beware, seller too.

If they don't deliver the title to lien holder or buyer, they have breached the contract and are subject to remedies that would include specific performance (delivering the title) and damages (attorney fees, court costs, etc.). The state could take away their license.

They probably didn't want to use email because email is considered 'in writing" and is admissible as evidence in court, stronger than he said/she said evidence which could be one person's word against another's.

As far as the tax credit goes, Dealers CAN only apply for it for LEASED vehicles, because they OWN the vehicle. BTW leased vehicles are not subject to the content/manufacturing content requirements because they are considered 'commercial' vehicles.

HOWEVER, the seller has to report the sale to the IRS for you to get the tax credit. I don't know what will happen if this dealership refuses to report to the IRS - make that a part of your settlement/judgement if you end up suing.

You may or may not get all or part of the tax credit when you file your 2023 tax return because of the way the law works - for example there is an income (Adjusted Gross) test:
-------------------
To qualify, you must:

• Buy it for your own use, not for resale
• Use it primarily in the U.S.

In addition, your modified adjusted gross income (AGI) may not exceed:

• $300,000 for married couples filing jointly
• $225,000 for heads of households
• $150,000 for all other filers

The sale qualifies only if:

• You buy the vehicle new
• The seller reports required information to you at the time of sale and to the IRS.
  • Sellers are required to report your name and taxpayer identification number to the IRS for you to be eligible to claim the credit.

In addition, the vehicle's manufacturer suggested retail price (MSRP) can't exceed:

• $80,000 for vans, sport utility vehicles and pickup trucks
• $55,000 for other vehicles

MSRP is the retail price of the automobile suggested by the manufacturer, including manufacturer installed options, accessories and trim but excluding destination fees. It isn't necessarily the price you pay.

(from the IRS web site: https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after )
-------------------------
Don't you just love dealships?!

Ford has made noise about selling EV's directly to consumers like Tesla.
I'd like that.

(PS: Disclaimer - I am an EE and an Attorney, but not licensed to practice in Colo. - seek competent legal advice by an attorney licensed in your state and do not rely on the above as legal advice.)

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[chl]

No, they said it was a rebate, and didn't give any details, and at the time I should have been more judicious. and they said I might not qualify for it, but due to the rebate I took less for my trade (stupid on my part).
Per the dealer 30+ days later:

You did nothing wrong - actually it may end up that you got $7500 off the deal less the $2000 less you took = $5500 due to their mistake.

 

[chl]

I agree with the above.

By get back the $7500, do you (the original poster) mean they gave you a price with $7500 discount off MSRP? Or did they give you $7500 cash/check at signing?

Either way it was in the deal as a discount, it SHOULD show up on a line on the sales contract.

Once the paperwork is singed by both parties, it generally matters not what anyone said orally beforehand unless there was a serious material misrepresentation (lie) constituting fraud, a rare exception, in most cases it is buyer beware, seller too.

If they don't deliver the title to lien holder or buyer, they have breached the contract and are subject to remedies that would include specific performance (delivering the title) and damages (attorney fees, court costs, etc.). The state could take away their license.

They probably didn't want to use email because email is considered 'in writing" and is admissible as evidence in court, stronger than he said/she said evidence which could be one person's word against another's.

As far as the tax credit goes, Dealers CAN only apply for it for LEASED vehicles, because they OWN the vehicle. BTW leased vehicles are not subject to the content/manufacturing content requirements because they are considered 'commercial' vehicles.

HOWEVER, the seller has to report the sale to the IRS for you to get the tax credit. I don't know what will happen if this dealership refuses to report to the IRS - make that a part of your settlement/judgement if you end up suing.

You may or may not get all or part of the tax credit when you file your 2023 tax return because of the way the law works - for example there is an income (Adjusted Gross) test:
-------------------
To qualify, you must:

• Buy it for your own use, not for resale
• Use it primarily in the U.S.

In addition, your modified adjusted gross income (AGI) may not exceed:

• $300,000 for married couples filing jointly
• $225,000 for heads of households
• $150,000 for all other filers

The sale qualifies only if:

• You buy the vehicle new
• The seller reports required information to you at the time of sale and to the IRS.
  • Sellers are required to report your name and taxpayer identification number to the IRS for you to be eligible to claim the credit.

In addition, the vehicle's manufacturer suggested retail price (MSRP) can't exceed:

• $80,000 for vans, sport utility vehicles and pickup trucks
• $55,000 for other vehicles

MSRP is the retail price of the automobile suggested by the manufacturer, including manufacturer installed options, accessories and trim but excluding destination fees. It isn't necessarily the price you pay.

(from the IRS web site: https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after )
-------------------------
Don't you just love dealships?!

Ford has made noise about selling EV's directly to consumers like Tesla.
I'd like that.

(PS: Disclaimer - I am an EE and an Attorney, but not licensed to practice in Colo. - seek competent legal advice by an attorney licensed in your state and do not rely on the above as legal advice.)

Seems like it is a REQUIREMENT for Sellers and Dealers to report to the IRS AND to give the buyer the correct information about the tax credit!

See: https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/clean-vehicle-credit-seller-or-dealer-requirements

 

[chl]

It almost sounds to me like they thought they could apply the $7500 federal tax credit at point-of-sale, like they can in a few months. Oops.

Maybe so.

"Transfer of Credit Rules Apply to Vehicles Placed in Service in 2024. Beginning in 2024, buyers will be able to transfer clean vehicle credits to dealers at the time of sale, and use the credit amount as a down payment at time of sale. To participate, dealers will need to register with the IRS in the future."

BUT, the buyers has to sign it over to the dealership, so there would be paperwork at the time of sale, and the credit would appear as a line item on the sales contract.

 

[chl]

Most car sales paperwork has language indicating that corrections might be made. Any rebate should be in the numbers. Get a lawyer on Friday.

Corrections would have to be non-material, like a typo, or misspelling - price could not be changed because price is an essential element of any contract.

 

[Arrington.LCA]

Based on the

No, they said it was a rebate, and didn't give any details, and at the time I should have been more judicious. and they said I might not qualify for it, but due to the rebate I took less for my trade (stupid on my part).
Per the dealer 30+ days later:

This looks like the private offer that was made to certain early reservation holders to adjust the price back down to the original 2022 MSRP and not a state or federal rebate. Looks to me like the dealership messed up and tried to included you in this offer even though your reservation was later on. Were you in Wave 5 of order? Regardless it seems like the dealership could have easily verified this prior to completing the sale.

 

[Amps]

Maybe so.

"Transfer of Credit Rules Apply to Vehicles Placed in Service in 2024. Beginning in 2024, buyers will be able to transfer clean vehicle credits to dealers at the time of sale, and use the credit amount as a down payment at time of sale. To participate, dealers will need to register with the IRS in the future."

BUT, the buyers has to sign it over to the dealership, so there would be paperwork at the time of sale, and the credit would appear as a line item on the sales contract.

OP answered in Post #14 that the $7500 amount was merely coincident with the amount of the tax credit.

The problem is that the dealer extended private offer/price protection that was in place for 2022 early Wave reservation holders who extended their reservation without ordering when offered. Ford allowed this after XLT and Pro sold out. It didn't apply in OP's case and the dealer made an expensive mistake. Serves them right for low-balling the trade.

 

[FirstF150InCasco]

That's the next step after the AID investigation, they should fix this.

Good luck. Obviously the dealer was stupid. For the dealer to think that they -- not you -- could claim the tax credit shows their lack of business sense.

 

[PaulTalb]

Were you in Wave 5 of order? Regardless it seems like the dealership could have easily verified this prior to completing the sale.

I think I ended up in Wave 7, in the rebate details it specifies the method for verifying the eligibility of the rebate. I've always felt like I was getting hustled.

- Rule of '10' applies. - Standard Rules of Eligibility dated 04/2022 apply. - If you have questions concerning VINCENT, contact the Marketing Communication Center at (800)548-3212. - As a reminder, to avoid payment reversals, please run all VINs through Smart VINCENT with the proper sales type, delivery date, and customer zip code and retain a copy of the Summary Page or Lock Confirmation in the deal jacket.

 

[PaulTalb]

Adding the rebate information, might help someone else, possible that you qualified for this but the dealer kept it.

 

[PaulTalb]

By get back the $7500, do you (the original poster) mean they gave you a price with $7500 discount off MSRP? Or did they give you $7500 cash/check at signing?

Either way it was in the deal as a discount, it SHOULD show up on a line on the sales contract.

It was on the bill of sale as a factory rebate.

 

[TaxmanHog]

So, what we have here is a prime example of why some dealers are gun shy about advancing the price protection adjustments until after the sales data is reported to FoMoCO through SMART VINCENT. The dealer screwed up big time, as other said above, you made out regardless of the low valued trade.

They need to get off the pot, eat the loss and issue the title, they screwed up, simple and short!

 

[Pitbull2o08]

It was on the bill of sale as a factory rebate.

you better get an attorney to simply write a strongly worded letter for a couple hundred bucks and/or put them on retainer for a few thousand and close this deal.

 

[Silenze]

So, what we have here is a prime example of why some dealers are gun shy about advancing the price protection adjustments until after the sales data is reported to FoMoCO through SMART VINCENT. The dealer screwed up big time, as other said above, you made out regardless of the low valued trade.

They need to get off the pot, eat the loss and issue the title, they screwed up, simple and short!

This wasn't price protection. Price protection only adjusts your sales price back to the price on your DORA. This was an additional rebate from ford to get the price back to 2022 that would show up in smart Vincent at the time of the sale. Just like a private offer would.

 

[TaxmanHog]

This wasn't price protection. Price protection only adjusts your sales price back to the price on your DORA. This was an additional rebate from ford to get the price back to 2022 that would show up in smart Vincent at the time of the sale. Just like a private offer would.

Pardon the generalization, in the end they've screwed something up per the snapshot of the text messages.

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