Lightning powering house -

[HI Zeus]

Oops, here’s an “in-house link” for the 2.4kW 240v setup.
an additional 240v 20amp OUTPUT at the rear BED outlets, via a 'Y' adapter:

Assuming you would not try to combine the outputs, that is an idea.

One thing to think about/keep in mind, is keeping the two inverter outputs completely separate/isolated because they are NOT in sync.

According to forum posts, they are un-synchronized inverters, so you'd have big problems if somewhere in your proposed system they were combined. Voltages would combine and subtract and vary from the 120V or 240V you want for your circuits.

Actually, when you look at the screen for the PPOB 240V output while powering the house, you will see that output is made from two 120V inverters synchronized to provide the desired output.
The screen will show you how much power is being used by each leg.

I was a bit surprised to see that I was using just about 1/3 of the 7200 watts with all 10 of my transferred circuits on, I hadn't calculated the loads on each circuit before hand.

I could probably have run them on the 2.4kW output, and use the 7.2kW for my AC (with a soft starter to slow the inrush current).

So I actually had that same idea and am pondering it myself.

THANKS!

Yes, as I educate myself I have learned about the issues with un-synchronized 120 to get to 240 (I was looking at it from a charging point), so that's why I figured two totally separate systems. Bed of truck to certain appliances and Frunk to other appliances. All-in-all it seems like a pretty inexpensive and safe setup to me, but wanted to see if others who know more about this could see any issue I was ignorant to.

BTW, the Genera 6854 DOES deal with the neutral/grounding issue properly... correct?

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[HI Zeus]

Wow - that is way longer than I thought! Great info, thank you!

YUP, we are driving enormous batteries that also are able to do a few other things.

 

[Newton]

I have the 9854 and it does deal with the bonding issues if everything is installed properly. It can take a bit of work, my gas furnace was tripping the GFCI because the neutral wire was shorted to the frame (poor installation technique) which is something that I am glad that I got fixed. Some lighting controls marketed as ‘no neutral required!’ do this intentionally which is a PITA when you are trying to isolate neutrals.

 

[hturnerfamily]

...
The microwave I have is a 1000 watt microwave the coffee pot is a small one at 400 watts. They would not be running a long time, like the computer and lights might be.

and, yes, like many aspects of LIFE, HOW you use your electricity makes all the difference in how 'long' you would have 'full power'... there is no 'stock' answer - not even Ford knows - they are just 'advertising'....
-it also depends on your battery's level 'when it happens'....

so, if you're running your A/C compressor 24/7 , which might use 240v at 24amps the WHOLE time, sure, you're going to blow thru your battery power quickly - but, even then, 'quickly' is subjective.

if you use only very FEW low-power electronics, lights, fans, etc., you may have a LONG LONG time of 'power' from your truck. Even then, though, that may 'sound' great, but , there is no 'way' to know.... it all depends.

Only God knows. Maybe.





Most owners finding themselves in a 'hurricane' or similar catastrophic situation may have an even larger problem: WHERE to charge when they do 'use' all their battery power to their home. You have to GET to a charging station, or somewhere electricity IS back on. They also understand that in those scenarios powering an a/c 24/7 is NOT necessarily the absolute priority.

 

[RLXXI]

After reading about the HIS or what ever it's called equipment needed to use the truck to power the home, I decided to go another route and save that coin for other things. I bought a 30a 50' RV shore power cord with the standard 4 prong locking gen plugs.

I cut the opposite end off and connected the two lines L1 and L2 to their respective gen input bus on my home solar inverter (EG4 12000xp), that way it adds to the battery bank I already have to power the home bypassing that extra equipment needed for auto powering the home.

Link to shore power cable.

 

[chl]

Oops, here’s an “in-house link” for the 2.4kW 240v setup.
an additional 240v 20amp OUTPUT at the rear BED outlets, via a 'Y' adapter:


THANKS!

Yes, as I educate myself I have learned about the issues with un-synchronized 120 to get to 240 (I was looking at it from a charging point), so that's why I figured two totally separate systems. Bed of truck to certain appliances and Frunk to other appliances. All-in-all it seems like a pretty inexpensive and safe setup to me, but wanted to see if others who know more about this could see any issue I was ignorant to.

BTW, the Genera 6854 DOES deal with the neutral/grounding issue properly... correct?

Yes.
I believe the only difference between the 6853 (I have) and the 6854 is just the type of inlet box that it comes with. They use the same manual *attached.

The OEM switch includes 8 circuits:
Included Breakers: 1-30 Amp 2-pole, 1-20 Amp 1-pole, 5-15 Amp 1-pole

They are Siemens breakers - I switched out the 30A-2 pole and one of the 15A for Siemens Q1515
15/15 Amp Two 1 Pole Tandem Twin Duplex #246. Moved the breakers around so the 15A's were at the top and the 20A's at the bottom.

Also I used short 24 inch the whip that came with it, but my circuit neutrals were high in my service panel so I bought extra white wire for them. The whip conduit was a tight squeeze for 10 circuits, so I separated the neutrals and ran them in a separate conduit from the other side of the switch. You'll also need a 50A breaker for your service panel to power the switch when in utility mode.

The guy who sold me his 6853 did not include the inlet box or the cord, but they are easily obtainable on Amazon.

Have fun with it!

 

[chl]

PS: my wiring - I left my old transfer switch for a non-bonded gasoline generator because I am lazy (and thought it would be less work, lol) and wired the GENERAC above it so the utility and the Lightning would feed into the house circuit through the old switch set in the utility mode.

A simplified block diagram:

Works fine.

One thing we GENERAC transfer switch users have noticed is if there is utility power on the utility input to the GENERAC (like when switching back to utility or when doing a test) when you switch to or from the Lightning the Lightning breaker will open and report a ground fault - a small transient pulse of electricity goes down the line to the Lightning under those circumstances.

You can see it in this video at the end when he switches back to utility from the Lightning.



It can also happen if you more the wrong neutral wire into the GENERAC - I did that - it was a tangle of neutrals in there and I mixed one up.
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Disclaimer

I am an electrical engineer but not a licensed electrician.

The information provided in this post is provided for information purposes only and does not constitute any endorsement or recommendation. No warranty, expressed or implied, is made regarding the accuracy, adequacy, completeness, legality, reliability, or usefulness of any information found in this post. It is your responsibility to verify and investigate this information.

 

[chl]

To make connecting things easier, I got a box of WAGO 221 series wire connectors - service panel already had plenty of wire nut connections from an 100A to 200A upgrade and the first transfer switch install.

The WAGOs are worth the price!

https://www.amazon.com/221-2401-Inl...=1757375084&sprefix=wago+wire+,aps,157&sr=8-1

 

[chl]

Most owners finding themselves in a 'hurricane' or similar catastrophic situation may have an even larger problem: WHERE to charge when they do 'use' all their battery power to their home. You have to GET to a charging station, or somewhere electricity IS back on. They also understand that in those scenarios powering an a/c 24/7 is NOT necessarily the absolute priority.

When we had a several day outage and all I had was a gasoline generator, a lot of gas stations could not pump gas with no power so I had to drive around to find one with gas and electricity.
I survived here in a Virginia suburb of DC with just fans on.

If I lived in Florida, I might really need Air Conditioning!

 

[jnthn98]

Has anyone installed the Generac 6853/6854 in an outdoor setting? I am thinking of installing the manual transfer switch outdoors, next to my outdoor main panel. Is there an outdoor enclosure for the 6853/6854 sold separately? Or a different model number that is an outdoor equivalent version of the 6853/6854?

 

[chl]

Has anyone installed the Generac 6853/6854 in an outdoor setting? I am thinking of installing the manual transfer switch outdoors, next to my outdoor main panel. Is there an outdoor enclosure for the 6853/6854 sold separately? Or a different model number that is an outdoor equivalent version of the 6853/6854?

As implied the 6853/54 are indoors only, the enclosures are not weather tight/proof.
If you looks at the various code definitions of "indoors" you'll get an idea of what it would require (UL, NEC, NEMA, etc., and local building codes).

There are outdoor rated switches (I do not know if these are neutral switching though):

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/power/manual-transfer-switch-outdoor-generators.html

And see this video for another idea for a transfer switch:



A screen capture from the video with my labels added for clarity:

-----DETAILS-----
NEMA 250 deals with the specific requirements for enclosures:

"This Standard covers enclosures for electrical equipment rated not more than 1000 Volts and intended to be installed and used as follows:
a.enclosures for indoor locations, Types 1, 2, 5, 12, 12K, and 13; and
b.enclosures for indoor or outdoor locations, Types 3, 3X, 3R, 3RX, 3S, 3SX, 4, 4X, 6,and 6P; and
c.enclosures for hazardous (classified) locations Types 7 and 9

This Standard covers the requirements to provide protection to the enclosed equipment against specific environmental conditions. The requirements of this Standard mandate that enclosures and equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with manufacturer’s instructions and 110.3(B) of the ANSI/NFPA 70, National Electrical Code® (NEC®)."
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Key Aspects of NEC 110.3(B):
Installation and Use:
Equipment must be installed in a manner that aligns with its intended use and safety requirements as specified by the manufacturer.

Manufacturer's Instructions:
These instructions, which can be in the form of printed materials, online resources, or QR codes, contain critical information about safe installation and operation.

Product Listing and Labeling:
Equipment must be used in accordance with the specifications on its listing or label, which indicates it has met safety standards.

Examples of Violations:
Incorrect Circuit Breakers: Using a circuit breaker from one manufacturer in a panelboard from another can be a violation of NEC 110.3(B) if the manufacturer's instructions prohibit it.

Improper Wiring: Using the wrong type of conductor (solid vs. stranded) with a terminal device that specifies a particular type is a violation, as per www.cxconnect.com.

Incorrect Placement: Installing an electrical baseboard heater in a location where its placement is restricted by instructions, such as directly beneath an electrical receptacle, is also a violation.

Installer Responsibility:
Installers are obligated to locate and follow these instructions to ensure the equipment's safe and correct operation

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The local building code may define "indoors" as "a space within a fully enclosed, permanent, and secured structure that is protected from the elements by a roof and/or exterior walls."
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AI says about "indoors:"

Key characteristics of an "indoor" space in code definitions:

• Enclosure: The area must be contained within a permanent, fully enclosed structure.
  
  • Protection: It is protected from weather by a roof or overhead cover.
    
    
  • Walls: The space is defined by fixed exterior walls.
    
    
  • Security: The structure must be secure and not accessible to the public without authorization.
    
    
  • Exclusions: Temporary structures, such as tents, hoop houses, and some outdoor dining structures, are not considered indoors

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Generally, it must be an area protected from weather and not subject to saturation with waters of liquids. The NEC does not seem to have a definition of "indoors." But NEC 110.3(b) says that electrical equipment must be installed according to the manufacturer's specifications.

Also, "ignoring the instructions would be a code violation, whether they are on printed materials, accessible via QR codes, or online. This rule applies to various aspects of installation, including specific conductor types, breaker panel compatibility, and physical placement, and it is the responsibility of the installer to find and follow these instructions."

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So I guess the bottom line is you can't install the 6853/54 outdoors.
But an enclose attached garage would likely be considered indoors I'd imagine.

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