Performance in subzero temperatures

[TomB985]

Good afternoon, everyone.

I have a deal to buy a Lightning tomorrow morning that I mentioned in THIS THREAD, and I was looking for some more detailed information on how they perform in the cold.

I’m located in Minnesota and currently drive a 2022 Model Y, which is my third EV since 2019. That Model 3 had a 5 kW PTC heater in the dash, and I always found it to be inefficient and underwhelming. It struggled to keep me warm when it got down around 0º F, and the range penalty was substantial in that Standard Range car. My next EV was a 2022 EV6, which had a heat pump supplemented by a PTC heater, and it performed much better. I finally traded for a 2022 Model Y at the end of last year because I got frustrated with the charging networks and wanted more towing capacity. The Model Y just uses a heat pump, and it did a fantastic job down as low as -12º F, which is the coldest temp I used it last winter. It would go from nothing to comfortable in about five minutes in the dark with no sunlight, and that performance is a big deal for me because of some circulatory and neurological issues. I really struggle to keep my body temperature up in colder weather, which is a big reason I won’t go back to ICE.

I’m familiar with the range loss, and it looks like the Lightning will do a shade better than my Model Y. Worst-case for that was about 140 miles of range at -10º, which is down from a rated 330 miles that the car never seemed capable of. I’m really curious about how the cabin heater works when it gets that cold. My understanding is that it uses a coolant heater to warm fluid that’s piped into an old-fashioned heater core? How well does this work? Does it take long to warm up from a cold soak?

Everything can heat well at 20º, but my experience in subzero temps has been mixed. Thanks in advance!

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[RickLightning]

That's not at all correct. It's a resistance heater.

 

[Joneii]

We drove our Lightning around in -20 F last winter. There was a big range hit, but the cabin was toasty warm. The truck performed great. We actually passed several stranded diesel trucks that had gelled up. We offered them help, but they said they had help on the way. What didn’t work great was the mobile charger. It is only rated to -18 F and I can attest that it didn’t charge the truck after being cold soaked. The truck was able to charge fine at DC fast chargers. You want to make sure you use the nav system for battery preconditioning in weather like that.

 

[RickLightning]

Good point on the Ford Mobile Charger, and others have had that issue. It works fine until it's very cold, and then it stops or slows down a lot.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I've been very happy with the Lightnings heater performance, last vehicle was F250 Powerstroke 6.7L that was a bear to get warm in the winter without the cold prep-package.

I usually remote start my Lighting while it's plugged in, this gets cabin temps up to snuff in ~15 minutes time without compromising the SOC, also keeping your Lightning plugged into 240v medium or high amp EVSE will help keep the battery temps optimized as well.

Use departure times to schedule a battery conditioning session, set the depart time for about 30 minutes prior to real leave time to mitigate one of the Lightings current flaws tied to the heated steering wheel. See many threads in the ISSUES node on that subject and a couple work arounds.

 

[Bandit216]

Last winter I did a trip report on my Lightning in extreme cold. Driving and Charging the Lightning at -40F\-40C. A Real World Test. | Ford Lightning Forum For F-150 Lightning EV Pickup: News, Owners, Discussions, Community (f150lightningforum.com)

Bottom Line: In answer to your question, I have found the Lightning heater output to actually be pretty good at below zero temps. In fact, I've found it better than my Mach E even though the Mach E has a smaller cabin. I am NOT overly thrilled with the climate control interface and its automatic functions, though. I quit using the auto heat functionality in both vehicles. I manually set the fan speed and temp and manually select the windshield and floor vents. If I need the defrost, I manually select it for as short a time that does the job - typically 30 seconds or less. If the auto defrost comes on automatically, which it annoyingly does frequently (regardless of switch positions), I immediately deselect it, otherwise it will suck in cool air and lower the interior cabin temp. Ford has made some progress improving the auto heat\defrost but clearly their engineers haven't spent much time on extreme cold considerations. (The -15-20 in Michigan isn't extreme cold)

I don't use departure times since my schedule may vary, but I do plug in to a level charger 2 at work and let the battery take care of itself automatically, using shore power. The heater works fast enough down to about 10-20 degrees, so I just get in it and go, letting the heater warm it up as I drive. If it is below zero, I'll manually start my Lightning (using Fordpass app) about 5 minutes before I head home, and the cockpit will be warm enough to cook pizza (almost) after those 5 minutes. It stays in a heated garage at home. I have left it at the airport for several weeks, (not plugged in) at below zero temps and other than taking a while to heat the cabin, there have been no issues with cold wx parking.

I do wish Ford offered an extreme cold weather package option that included: non-shared cabin and battery heaters and heating loops, lower temp spec coolant in the coolant loops (like -50F vs the -20-30F that is standard from the factory), and a proper winter tire option from the factory. I have the all-terrain tire option on the Lightning, and it is adequate for winter, but they don't hold a candle to the continental winter tires on my Mach E.

For my first full Lightning winter in Alaska, I averaged a consistent 1.2 to 1.3 mpk. On the Mach E, I average a consistent 1.8 mpk for winter - that is with an average temperature ranging from 32F to -40F. It is almost never above freezing here from late October until mid-March.

 

[TomB985]

Last winter I did a trip report on my Lightning in extreme cold. Driving and Charging the Lightning at -40F\-40C. A Real World Test. | Ford Lightning Forum For F-150 Lightning EV Pickup: News, Owners, Discussions, Community (f150lightningforum.com)

Bottom Line: In answer to your question, I have found the Lightning heater output to actually be pretty good at below zero temps. In fact, I've found it better than my Mach E even though the Mach E has a smaller cabin. I am NOT overly thrilled with the climate control interface and its automatic functions, though. I quit using the auto heat functionality in both vehicles. I manually set the fan speed and temp and manually select the windshield and floor vents. If I need the defrost, I manually select it for as short a time that does the job - typically 30 seconds or less. If the auto defrost comes on automatically, which it annoyingly does frequently (regardless of switch positions), I immediately deselect it, otherwise it will suck in cool air and lower the interior cabin temp. Ford has made some progress improving the auto heat\defrost but clearly their engineers haven't spent much time on extreme cold considerations. (The -15-20 in Michigan isn't extreme cold)

I don't use departure times since my schedule may vary, but I do plug in to a level charger 2 at work and let the battery take care of itself automatically, using shore power. The heater works fast enough down to about 10-20 degrees, so I just get in it and go, letting the heater warm it up as I drive. If it is below zero, I'll manually start my Lightning (using Fordpass app) about 5 minutes before I head home, and the cockpit will be warm enough to cook pizza (almost) after those 5 minutes. It stays in a heated garage at home. I have left it at the airport for several weeks, (not plugged in) at below zero temps and other than taking a while to heat the cabin, there have been no issues with cold wx parking.

I do wish Ford offered an extreme cold weather package option that included: non-shared cabin and battery heaters and heating loops, lower temp spec coolant in the coolant loops (like -50F vs the -20-30F that is standard from the factory), and a proper winter tire option from the factory. I have the all-terrain tire option on the Lightning, and it is adequate for winter, but they don't hold a candle to the continental winter tires on my Mach E.

For my first full Lightning winter in Alaska, I averaged a consistent 1.2 to 1.3 mpk. On the Mach E, I average a consistent 1.8 mpk for winter - that is with an average temperature ranging from 32F to -40F. It is almost never above freezing here from late October until mid-March.

Thank you! I went and read through your thread, and it was exactly what I was looking for. I'm also a data nerd, and I've used the CarScanner app in the past with my EV6. I wasn't sure if the battery size difference was enough to offset the less-efficient resistive heater, but it seems like it's more than enough.

I also appreciated your thoughts on tires. I test drove the truck before it had gone through their safety/detail process, and it looked like the factory shoes had about 50% life remaining. The salesman confirmed that it was getting new tires, and they let me pick the new ones. I chose the Firestone Destination AT/2 because it carries the 3-peak severe snow rating, which sounds like a better choice than the factory rubber.

 

[Oafy44]

We drove our Lightning around in -20 F last winter. There was a big range hit, but the cabin was toasty warm. The truck performed great. We actually passed several stranded diesel trucks that had gelled up. We offered them help, but they said they had help on the way. What didn’t work great was the mobile charger. It is only rated to -18 F and I can attest that it didn’t charge the truck after being cold soaked. The truck was able to charge fine at DC fast chargers. You want to make sure you use the nav system for battery preconditioning in weather like that.

Second that. Same experience. Was nice and cozy at -21f windshield last year. ER Range was about 260 Vs the 320 at 4 degrees but charged well at DC.

 

[TomB985]

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate any more thoughts, but what’s been posted has been immensely valuable. I was always disappointed with the cold weather range of my 2019 Model 3, but the next two were much better. I cleaned out my Model Y a few minutes ago and rearranged the garage.

It looks like the Lightning won’t disappoint.

 

[jmc6020]

keeping your Lightning plugged into 240v medium or high amp EVSE will help keep the battery temps optimized as well.

What amperage do you consider a medium amp EVSE?

 

[TaxmanHog]

What amperage do you consider a medium amp EVSE?

48

 

[Maquis]

48

For a Lightning ER, yes. For most all other EVs, 48 is max.

 

[TaxmanHog]

For a Lightning ER, yes. For most all other EVs, 48 is max.

I'm guilty of presuming everyone is driving an ER in the Lariat class

After a little digging, I recall that he traded up to an ER from the troublesome 22-SR recently.

 

[Maquis]

I'm guilty of presuming everyone is driving an ER in the Lariat class

After a little digging, I recall that he traded up to an ER from the troublesome 22-SR recently.

If I didn’t also have a Mach-E, I’d probably do the same.

 

[E-ONE]

New to the forum, was looking for similar problems with the climate control system on my 2023 lariat ER.
in temperatures below -15 Celsius, the interior windows would fog up and given enough time turned to ice.
Through experimentation, could only keep them clear, if on defrost. Took it to a dealer and they confirmed the problem but Ford engineers reported that the climate control system was operating as designed. There was nothing else they could do.
Was pretty frustrated with this, so I started calling around to other dealers, and found rural dealer owner that was willing to admit that they had a similar problem with the same model and year. They went through the same procedure with Ford, but the engineers admitted to them (not in writing) that this was an issue because of the way the environmental system was designed. In order to conserve battery power, heat is obtained and conserved in two fashions. Resistance heat, and the utilization of waste heat in the form of recirculating the cooling/heating water that surrounds the battery pack. The conservation method involves the air recirculation feature that is most commonly used for high air-conditioning. Circulation mode will come on automatically to recirculate the warm air in the cab rather than bringing in cold air. Unfortunately, recirculating warm, moist air will condense on the interior glass surfaces and form fog and if it’s cold enough, ice.
Selecting the defrost only, does not activate the recirculation actuator hence the ability to clear the windows quickly.
The only workaround for this issue was to disconnect the wire connected to the recirculation actuator, which solved the problem completely.
Ford verbally reported to the owner of the dealership that a reprogram may be coming in the future if there were enough complaints.

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