Invited After Transferring to ZEV State Dealer

[UncleLou]

Going more by their next day responses to my emails. They are big on communication.

"As far as a rough estimate for now, I can tell you that any recently place pre orders can expect delivery after 2022".

I'm in '24 with local Ford dealer so I'd expect to see the Rivian before the F150.

Rivian also noted that they are setting up an "Account Page" to show customers where they stand with delivery.

Ironically the biggest complaint on the Rivian forums is lack of communication.

Don’t mean to be a bummer but Rivian is expecting to deliver all pre-orders as of the time of the IPO by the end of 2023 (~50k), so 2024 is likely the earliest you’d see an r1t. As far as we know they haven’t even delivered a small fraction of the launch editions yet. Hopefully their ramp goes better than expected otherwise we might only see 10k deliveries this year.

I hope this is not how buying a car is going to be from now on. Sucks!

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[Ruination]

With respect to the pro, to me it has very "problematic" positioning to begin with. Obviously, the big appeal with it is price, being that it costs essentially the exact same as a no-option XL, with 4wd and a quad cab.... but I do wonder, how many XL, 4wd, Quad cabs does ford actually sell in a year??

I'd imagine that most people who buy XL trucks are either fleet customers, or end users using them exclusively as work / contractor vehicles. Either would likely be outfitting them with custom box solutions on the back. I'd think a single cab, or MAYBE a supercab are purchased far more often than a quad cab.

Obviously, they didn't want to engineer / crash test a single-cab configuration upon launch, so maybe they're hoping that with the frunk, these customers are ok with a quad cab/short bed combo. Personally, what I think they should have done with the pro is make the rear seat optional at ~$900-- making it clearer what this truck is for, and opening up a whole new host of possibilities for installers to use the rear seat area for additional storage / racking / etc.

To me, the purpose of the Pro is to showcase it as a future fleet replacement - both big and small. Your local hydro or telco that has ~100 trucks on the road and is handled by Ford Fleet, but also that small business owner, who has 7 or 8 trucks on the road, and likely wouldn't classify as a "fleet buyer" because he refreshes 2 every year kind of thing.

The challenge is -- Ford's built a product to hit a price point in a certain market. Realistically, this site is filled with enthusiasts. If Ford had their way, no enthusiast would be in one of these vehicles. But, because it's the cheapest one, you've got end users who look at it as "the affordable option". Ford has a restriction for Xplan that must be registered in personal name. It would have almost made sense to do the opposite -- require Pro purchasers to register to their business -- and state that right from the get-go.



As for reservations, the expectation that a reservation (and it's timing) should have some tie to allocations/order placing is perfectly valid... and they certainly do / will once prioritization are satisfied, subject to regional priorities. What has people upset is that it's not a hard, direct tie, which I don't believe is a realistic expectation. Ford is a very large company, with many priorities -- they're not starting from scratch. Even Tesla doesn't always follow it's reservation order.

Go to a dealer. They sell a lot. You just don't realize it cause they often say STX

 

[jfried]

Fleet buyers are able to order Pros with ER.

Interesting. Wonder if that's an immediate availability thing, or something that "is coming".

Go to a dealer. They sell a lot. You just don't realize it cause they often say STX

Good point.. although I'd imagine that most who add the STX package (which is entirely apperance-driven) is beginning to get out of that "Basic work truck" concept, and into something a little more personal.

I think that's part of the reason this truck is called the Pro and not the XL is because they really want to position it for it's target usage, and perhaps "simplify" the consumer-side options given that they're in a much less competitive marketspace.

If we just look at the "on-road" truck lineup in a quad-cab/short bed config, you've got...
- The XL starting at $37.7k.
- The XLT starting at $41.9k
- The Lariat starting at $48.5k
- The King Ranch starting at $57.1k
- The Platinum, which is basically the same truck as a King Ranch with a different "flair", starting at $59.9k.
- The Limited starting at $74.3k.

Each one of those can be "off-roaded a bit" with an FX4, many can be "jazzed up" with stx/sport/black/chrome appearance packages; and then of course specific options as well. I think they do it so they can "get somebody in the door" with an XL advertising price point, and "for an extra $50 a month, you can have an XLT!"

You're essentially dealing with Good/Better/Best, but instead of that kind of simplicity, you've got "Good/Better/Best/Exclusive Variant A or Exclusive Variant B/Elite". Yeah, Ford sells a lot of trucks, but they've also got a lot of dealers, and inventory become super in-efficient when you're doing that.

With no competition in the space right now, I don't think they need to hit 5 and a half different price points at the consumer level to try and "graduate" people along.... so simplify it back to Good / Better / Best (XLT/Lariat/Plat); and offer the pro strictly towards a specific, alternate market of work trucks.

Maybe I should have been more specific, in that it's not just XL but limited-optioned XLs. Ford would obviously have this info, but it would certainly be interesting to know how many "base" trucks are being built/sold with quad cabs.

I don't think it's a lot... but I do believe that is the market that the pro should have been focused on, not as the "1st step" in a "good/better/best/elite" type of arrangement. I think Ford can look at the success of the Tremor, Raptor, and take some clues that maybe you don't "Level 1-2-3-4-5"; but instead; keep it much simpler to "Level 1-2-3", and focus additional variants on different "purposes" / markets. The Pro is the work truck. Maybe you do 2 levels of off-roading with the Tremor & Raptor. Maybe you introduce a "street/lowered/sport truck". Find niches or commonalities that will draw people to this truck beyond just the price points.

 

[shutterbug]

Interesting. Wonder if that's an immediate availability thing, or something that "is coming".

That was a thing from the initial announcement. It said only fleet buyers could get Pro ER. Fleet buyers can also delete Charge Station Pro.

 

[TaxmanHog]

To be fair, I think you've put a lot of "this is what I'd like Farley to do to suit me" into this comment.

I was in wave 3, so already satisfied with my order......try again

 

[TaxmanHog]

I don't think there's any overarching reason to limit it to 20%. To me, 50% is a happy medium, and something that the average loyal ford buyer can understand.

We're both pulling numbers out of the air, what does it matter at this point ?

 

[jazzmanmonty]

Ford dealer told me I'm 35/25 and '24 so I ordered a Rivian.



Same tow and payload as F150EV and a bit more range so not sure why you'd say that. It's a bit shorter but $10k less and comes with a $600 bed cover. I wanted to give Ford a boost for its commitment to EV's and I probably did by giving them that early order PR boost that got their "preferred customers" jumping the line. So Mission Accomplished there. Now I get to give Rivian a boost. Save $10k on the Rivian and maybe make $10k flipping the F150 in '24.

Where is everyone seeing the Rivian being $10K less than the Lightning? are you comparing to the Lariat or something? Cheapest i see Rivian for is starting at $67.5K?

Also, I saw a Rivian about a month ago on the highway in Indiana doing 55 in a 55mph zone, where nobody drives under 70mph lol.. I hope this isn't a theme for EV drivers to go exactly the speed limit or under to be "efficient" because then we're all screwed.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

Where is everyone seeing the Rivian being $10K less than the Lightning? are you comparing to the Lariat or something? Cheapest i see Rivian for is starting at $67.5K?

Also, I saw a Rivian about a month ago on the highway in Indiana doing 55 in a 55mph zone, where nobody drives under 70mph lol.. I hope this isn't a theme for EV drivers to go exactly the speed limit or under to be "efficient" because then we're all screwed.

At the risk of going off topic, I’d really like to suggest to everyone on here to PLEASE follow all safety rules including speed limits. It’s my public road, not your private racetrack. Thank you!

 

[PA Lightning]

At the risk of going off topic, I’d really like to suggest to everyone on here to PLEASE follow all safety rules including speed limits. It’s my public road, not your private racetrack. Thank you!

I tried doing the speed limit on the interstate the other day. Got passed by a grandmother in a wheel chair and started to create a traffic jam with vehicles backing up behind me.

Seems like these days if you go the speed limit on an interstate it is unsafe. I adopt the flow of traffic concept with safe following distance

 

[TaxmanHog]

At the risk of going off topic, I’d really like to suggest to everyone on here to PLEASE follow all safety rules including speed limits. It’s my public road, not your private racetrack. Thank you!

110% with ya, that's why God made Drag Strips and GP Tracks, knock yourselves out there.

Admittedly, I'm a HP/TQ junkie, but try to be reasonable on the public roads

 

[TF1000]

Seems like these days if you go the speed limit on an interstate it is unsafe.

Not where I live. Semi's go 5 mph under. Then the majority go the limit or 5 over. Then about 20% drive like they didn't use the bathroom before they left. Sorry for taking this even more off topic.

 

[shocker]

At the risk of going off topic, I’d really like to suggest to everyone on here to PLEASE follow all safety rules including speed limits.

Good luck with that.

 

[Bigpoppa]

No offense to those who are trying to elevate their status in line by trying to jump to another dealer, but I have developed a relationship with my dealer over the last 20 years.
If some one and done time stamp shopper cut in line at my dealer, I would be irritated.

Seems like Ford gave the dealers a way to protect their customer base by giving them the ability to prioritize the first few orders to have the ability to prevent time stamp jumping. I would hope Ford gave the dealers the ability to prioritize to protect loyal customers.

With that said, there were a lot of , what I view as, unscrupulous dealers who try to take advantage of people by charging ADM for a priority order, or dealer owners/ employees who prioritized their own order. (That YouTube dealer comes to mind)

I am happy with way things turned out, not because I got to order, but the fact that my dealer did not play games.

Thanks for this input. I have a 30 year track record with my dealer and they appear to be totally in the dark or they have chosen to give me limited information. What they have indicated is that they were only allocated 2 vehicles. Perhaps I’ll reserve the Chevy Electric Truck as well and go with whichever lands first. I’ll also evaluate and compare the level of engagement and communication between Chevy and Ford.

 

[Ruination]

Interesting. Wonder if that's an immediate availability thing, or something that "is coming".



Good point.. although I'd imagine that most who add the STX package (which is entirely apperance-driven) is beginning to get out of that "Basic work truck" concept, and into something a little more personal.

I think that's part of the reason this truck is called the Pro and not the XL is because they really want to position it for it's target usage, and perhaps "simplify" the consumer-side options given that they're in a much less competitive marketspace.

If we just look at the "on-road" truck lineup in a quad-cab/short bed config, you've got...
- The XL starting at $37.7k.
- The XLT starting at $41.9k
- The Lariat starting at $48.5k
- The King Ranch starting at $57.1k
- The Platinum, which is basically the same truck as a King Ranch with a different "flair", starting at $59.9k.
- The Limited starting at $74.3k.

Each one of those can be "off-roaded a bit" with an FX4, many can be "jazzed up" with stx/sport/black/chrome appearance packages; and then of course specific options as well. I think they do it so they can "get somebody in the door" with an XL advertising price point, and "for an extra $50 a month, you can have an XLT!"

You're essentially dealing with Good/Better/Best, but instead of that kind of simplicity, you've got "Good/Better/Best/Exclusive Variant A or Exclusive Variant B/Elite". Yeah, Ford sells a lot of trucks, but they've also got a lot of dealers, and inventory become super in-efficient when you're doing that.

With no competition in the space right now, I don't think they need to hit 5 and a half different price points at the consumer level to try and "graduate" people along.... so simplify it back to Good / Better / Best (XLT/Lariat/Plat); and offer the pro strictly towards a specific, alternate market of work trucks.

Maybe I should have been more specific, in that it's not just XL but limited-optioned XLs. Ford would obviously have this info, but it would certainly be interesting to know how many "base" trucks are being built/sold with quad cabs.

I don't think it's a lot... but I do believe that is the market that the pro should have been focused on, not as the "1st step" in a "good/better/best/elite" type of arrangement. I think Ford can look at the success of the Tremor, Raptor, and take some clues that maybe you don't "Level 1-2-3-4-5"; but instead; keep it much simpler to "Level 1-2-3", and focus additional variants on different "purposes" / markets. The Pro is the work truck. Maybe you do 2 levels of off-roading with the Tremor & Raptor. Maybe you introduce a "street/lowered/sport truck". Find niches or commonalities that will draw people to this truck beyond just the price points.

You're right, but calling the Pro a "base truck" is disingenuous.

 

[jfried]

You're right, but calling the Pro a "base truck" is disingenuous.

Yeah - but I think the former / current "base" (XL, minimal options, no appearance options, black plastic bumpers) truck buyers are the ones who the Pro should be targeted at.

I don't believe m(any) people buy the "base" truck as their primary personal vehicle. Sure, maybe if you're an independent general contractor / handyman, you might do it so that you can beat the hell out of it and have something else fun / nice / exciting to drive on the evenings & weekends.

I'd imagine that anyone who's looking for a "full size pickup on a budget" opts for an STX, or Chrome Appearance Package, or something.

Ford is "frustrating" people, and flirting with the "bait & switch" territory with the Pro Truck coming in at $40k, but not making a ton available for people to buy as "the entry level truck" -- because that's obviously not what they want it to be.

To me, I think they needed to be clearer as to what the Pro was -- the work truck, and personally, I would have deleted the rear seat (or made it optional) to make it all that much clearer. It should have been "you can get one for $40k for you or your staff to beat on", or you can get one you'll like for low 50s.

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