12V battery failure while driving 45mph: Fix post #58

[NotPatel]

Update: Hopkins Ford called me. They said they went out to the truck today and the 12v was totally dead. Turns out the inverter is bad so they ordered a new one. I asked about the 12V labor being covered now and he said he would see - which is insane to me. Happy to pay for the battery (though, it only died b/c the inverter was dead). Labor is useless.

On Saturday (1/3), I was driving down the road at 45 miles an hour. No warning, no issues, nothing in my Ford app. I get 28 different warnings (Powertrain failure being one of them) that pop up and the truck just dies like a total brick in the middle of the road. I lose power steering and can’t even put on my flashers. Just a sitting duck.

I get it towed to a Ford dealership after a jump does not work and they tell me that my 12 V battery failed. It’s not covered by the extended warranty so between the diagnostic, battery, and labor I’m about $600. On top of that, they have a separate issue they can’t clear with the Bluetooth that they want to treat us a separate issue and want me to authorize a $200 diagnostic. I bought my 23 Lariat in October. It never sits for more than 10 hours and it’s always plugged in because I drive it a lot (in three months I have put close to 7000 miles on it). I do not understand how the 12V could’ve failed so suddenly and so catastrophically. I’m lucky I did not get hit. For reference, I have Ford premium care warranty that I bought directly from Ford.

Has anyone experienced this? Also, is this what Ford Service is like? Feels like I am being nickeled and dimed. Lexus, Cadillac, and Tesla just took care of issues like this, especially with warranty. Even when I asked about warranty coverage for the potential issue, he wanted me to authorize the $200 to diagnose and then reach out to Ford myself for a warranty coverage. Additionally, no loaner. Once again, I have Ford’s premium warranty that I bought at the same time I bought my Lightnings

I understand I could have done the battery on my own - I wish I had. But I had a powertrain failure warning along with 27 others. Additionally, Ford’s roadside was not able to jump it, so I waited for a tow for 2 hours. My wife came to get me - we were able to jump it with another car right away, but Ford advised not to drive it due to the powertrain failure warning.

I assume I have a bad dealer? I tried to contact ford. Ford protect’s number (8005214144) is “dead” for 2 days now, and the general Ford 800 number keeps disconnecting me after telling me they have to transfer me to Ford Protect.

My first Ford - pretty terrible experience so far.

Sponsored

 

[frautumn]

Hopefully Brian from @Ford Motor Company can help you out.

 

[NotPatel]

Thanks - hope Brian/Ford can help. I just had a text sent with my estimate. Although $595 is what I was quoted on the phone, the text invoice is $989. I am waiting for a call from the dealer (which likely won’t come - I have had to follow up with them).

In additional, no loaners at all despite my asking. Also not something I’m used to with other cars. I have always had a loaner (or Tesla provided Uber credits that expire in 24 hours).

 

[NotPatel]

Mine is a 23. I bought it in Oct used. I am at 40002 miles. I understand I have to pay for the 12V. The $600, though, is borderline offensive. The $1000 is absolutely untenable. They are adding all kinds of fees.

 

[NotPatel]

Update: Hopkins Ford called me. They said they went out to the truck today and the 12v was totally dead. Turns out the inverter is bad so they ordered a new one. I asked about the 12V labor being covered now and he said he would see - which is insane to me. Happy to pay for the battery (though, it only died b/c the inverter was dead). Labor is useless.

 

[RickLightning]

I believe that if the battery is killed by a malfunction in the vehicle, as in your case, that it should be covered by Ford since it was fine until the covered part killed it.

If the wheel sheared off due to a failed covered part, and it destroyed the wheel and the tire, they'd cover that.

 

[TaxmanHog]

A shorted power transistor in the DC/DC CONVERTER could drain a 12v battery, there have been reports about failed inverters on the forum.

 

[RocketGhost]

The 12v may not be covered under the extended warranty but the way the dealer is handling it seems fishy.

My understanding is that when they prepare an estimate the system automatically checks for a Ford warranty (factory or extended). If it's covered under the extended warranty the invoice will just show the deductible as being due. If it's not covered it will show a cash price.

You don't do anything for a warranty claim. The dealer's system processes it automatically and they get reimbursed from Ford. They shouldn't be giving you prices unless it's specifically not covered by the warranty (like the 12v itself).

Also with the Premiumcare warranty the deductible is per visit, not per issue. So if you take it in and say your truck is dead and also bluetooth doesn't work, that counts as a single visit and a single deductable.

 

[NotPatel]

thanks - that is good to know. they explained the warranty as a per issue warranty, not visit. Appreciate the clarification

 

[taraafico]

I believe your dealer is one of the rogue dealers who participated killing the lightning. Good luck. It’s scary though that the car can die suddenly.

 

[RocketGhost]

thanks - that is good to know. they explained the warranty as a per issue warranty, not visit. Appreciate the clarification

In a way it is per issue if there's an issue that isn't covered. You have to pay whatever fees they charge for something not covered just as though you didn't have a warranty. And if something is covered you have one deductible per visit no matter how many covered issues there are.

I would take a look at your warranty paperwork. If a covered part (e.g. inverter) causes a failure of a non-covered part (e.g. 12v battery) then warranty may cover it all. I think I've seen this in fine print before.

In my last truck I had a fuel injector fail - it stuck open. It caused fuel to contaminate the oil. Factory warranty covered the failed fuel injector, catalytic converter that was ruined due to raw fuel in the exhaust, and an oil change. Warranty says fluids aren't covered unless they have to be changed due to something covered. I also got a free rear diff fluid change because the seal went bad (covered part).

 

[Lytning]

Regarding ... "On Saturday (1/3), I was driving down the road at 45 miles an hour. No warning, no issues, nothing in my Ford app. I get 28 different warnings (Powertrain failure being one of them) that pop up and the truck just dies like a total brick in the middle of the road. I lose power steering and can’t even put on my flashers. Just a sitting duck."

I suggest you file a NHTSA Safety Complaint on this issue. Stopping in the middle of the road, with no flashers, like a sitting duck, is a life-threatening safety issue.

@Ford Motor Company needs to get on top of this issue very quickly!

Link to NHTSA Safety Complaint:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem

 

[PJnc284]

Regarding ... "On Saturday (1/3), I was driving down the road at 45 miles an hour. No warning, no issues, nothing in my Ford app. I get 28 different warnings (Powertrain failure being one of them) that pop up and the truck just dies like a total brick in the middle of the road. I lose power steering and can’t even put on my flashers. Just a sitting duck."

I suggest you file a NHTSA Safety Complaint on this issue. Stopping in the middle of the road, with no flashers, like a sitting duck, is a life-threatening safety issue.

@Ford Motor Company needs to get on top of this issue very quickly!

Link to NHTSA Safety Complaint:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem

Is it really any different than having an alternator take a dump? Friend had one die on her FJ Cruiser and ended up stuck on a busy road during rush hour once the 12v died. Had to leave the jump starter connected to it just to make it out of traffic and to a nearby gas station to wait for a tow truck.

Have a Ram 1500 with the stupid etorque system. It's currently sitting at the dealership because the MGU (fancy alternator) crapped out. We were lucky in that it just failed to start when leaving a restaurant. We jumped it and it ran for about 30 seconds before starting to run rough and just cut off. Replaced the battery since it was 5 years old but got a low voltage warning and check engine light before we made it home 20 miles away. Had we been going much further, we would've been up the creek once the 12v went flat.

 

[MountainAlive]

This whole thing certainly sounds like it all should be covered by warranty.

 

[chl]

1) it is the DC-DC converter that runs the 12VDC system including charging the 12V battery - the DC-DC converter takes high voltage DC (400V) from the Li battery and steps is down to 12VDC.

2) the "inverters" are used for the Pro Power On Board to take the high voltage DC (400V) and step it down and "invert" it to alternating current voltage (240V and 120V) and provide it to the 120V and 240V (if you have one in the bed) outlets.

---the terminology 'converter' is often used for both converters and inverters colloquially---

3) this battery failure is yet example of the poor management the truck does of the 12v battery - this is a 2023 vehicle so that means the 12v battery died in about 3 years of use - that is poor battery management.

4) just having your truck plugged in to your EVSE will NOT keep the 12v battery charged up - the truck only charges it when A) the truck is on, B) the truck is actively charging the HV battery C) when the 12v battery falls below a low threshold for 48 hours or D) when the 12v battery is even lower.

So, broken record here, every Lightning owner should have their 12v battery on a trickle charger when not in use, period full stop.

-----
Here's the dope - note by "trickle charger" I mean one that is a battery maintainer:

I keep my 12v battery on a trickle charger to avoid premature death (its, not mine) and to ensure OTAs get installed..

Deep discharge, which the lightning algorithm allows, is not good for longevity of these batteries, and the high charging currents seen when the battery is low, are another bad feature of the lightning system of 12v battery management.

This post form the Mach-e forum goes into depth about these 12v AGM batteries:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/how-to-recondition-service-your-12v-battery.11069/


If the details about how AGM battery charging progresses are accurate, the truck will not, on it's own, top off the battery in many cases because of the time it takes. That makes a trickle charger even more important for longevity since it can be on the 12v battery for many hours at a time charging even when the truck HV is not.


And this one about the different ways to charge up the battery to get OTAs:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/how-to-get-failed-otas-to-install.29749/

Also several threads here about putting trickle chargers on the battery and how to make it easier by adding a trickle charger wire:

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/charging-12v-battery.16979/

This is what I did - I put a wire with an SAE plug on one end through a small hole I drilled next to the charge port hinge where it would not damage anything, and ran it to the battery compartment where I attached it to a fused wire with ring terminals that would fit the 6mm bolts:

When all else fails, contact the BEV team at FORD: BEV Hotline 1-866-631-3788, or 800-392-3673, 571-831-5352

Sponsored