Footprint of 131Kwh battery vs 98 kw battery

[RLXXI]

Thanks, nice chart. I didn't know what the "buffer" capacity was.

I suppose the difference between 123kWh and 142.1kWh is the "buffer" extra battery capacity for health so the battery does not get too close to actual 100% or actual 0% controlled by the BMS (battery management system).

Sort of like gross and net income. The "usable" capacity is the net.

PS: AI had told me this but hadn't seen it in writing from Ford.

"The F-150 Lightning Extended Range has a total battery capacity of approximately 146-148 kWh, with a net usable capacity of 131 kWh"

3 different HVB's, 98, 123 and 131kWh usable.

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[MountainAlive]

Are they the EXACT SAME? same connections? same EXACTLY? in other words if both were laid side by side would there be ANY difference other than weight?

Are you asking because you’re wondering about swapping from a smaller pack to a bigger pack?

 

[SmoothJ]

Thanks, nice chart. I didn't know what the "buffer" capacity was.

I suppose the difference between 123kWh and 142.1kWh is the "buffer" extra battery capacity for health so the battery does not get too close to actual 100% or actual 0% controlled by the BMS (battery management system).

Sort of like gross and net income. The "usable" capacity is the net.

PS: AI had told me this but hadn't seen it in writing from Ford.

"The F-150 Lightning Extended Range has a total battery capacity of approximately 146-148 kWh, with a net usable capacity of 131 kWh"

I remember having this conversation with a Ford rep at the NYIAT. He thought I had 2 heads when I told him that the F150L ER had a battery pack size of 143.4kWh with only 131kWh usable.

 

[WXman]

Interesting thread. I kind of wondered about this. So the new 123 kWh pack is the same chemistry and design, they just reduced number of cells slightly as a cost-cutting measure (along with the other laundry list of things they cut) for the Flash trim level this year.

 

[SmoothJ]

Interesting thread. I kind of wondered about this. So the new 123 kWh pack is the same chemistry and design, they just reduced number of cells slightly as a cost-cutting measure (along with the other laundry list of things they cut) for the Flash trim level this year.

It seems that way. Smaller battery and therefore smaller buffer. Also, IMHO, less battery longevity.

 

[bmwhitetx]

Interesting thread. I kind of wondered about this. So the new 123 kWh pack is the same chemistry and design, they just reduced number of cells slightly as a cost-cutting measure (along with the other laundry list of things they cut) for the Flash trim level this year.

Yes same chemistry and design but reduced cell count. Here is a layout of the nine modules (Ford also refers to them as arrays):

Note #1-8 are the same size and #9 is smaller in size. Here are how they are populated (small modules in yellow).

Each pouch cell has 0.29875 kWh. Note the total kWh shown is full capacity and what you will see on the battery label (examples below). As mentioned, there is a buffer and usable capacity is less, e.g. 131 kWh for the ER.

For the 2025 Job 2 Flash they replaced two 16.43 kWh modules with the the smaller 11.95 kWh ones.

Battery stickers:

 

[RLXXI]

Interesting thread. I kind of wondered about this. So the new 123 kWh pack is the same chemistry and design, they just reduced number of cells slightly as a cost-cutting measure (along with the other laundry list of things they cut) for the Flash trim level this year.

Consider the Flash a stripped down Lariat. It's sort of a cross between the Lariat and XLT.

 

[chl]

It seems that way. Smaller battery and therefore smaller buffer. Also, IMHO, less battery longevity.

I wonder about putting more cells in the same space though regarding longevity and reliability.

Need good heat management - for dissipation and thermal expansion which could be more of a challenge with the higher density batteries.

Heat is a major factor in battery longevity so thermal management is critical.

Also charging rate has to be faster (higher current) to get to the same charge level in the same time as a less densely packed battery.

Has anyone noticed more failures of Lightning batteries in ER's vs SR's?

 

[chl]

Has anyone noticed more failures of Lightning batteries in ER's vs SR's?

I haven't done a count but my impression has been that the lightning battery failures posted on the forum(s) have mostly been of ER trims?

It seems the NHTSA 25s18 recall affected both ER and SR batteries however so maybe my impression is wrong?

 

[P-38]

I wonder about putting more cells in the same space though regarding longevity and reliability.

Need good heat management - for dissipation and thermal expansion which could be more of a challenge with the higher density batteries.

Heat is a major factor in battery longevity so thermal management is critical.

Also charging rate has to be faster (higher current) to get to the same charge level in the same time as a less densely packed battery.

Has anyone noticed more failures of Lightning batteries in ER's vs SR's?

I think @GoodSam has a tracking sheet in his signature for battery or power train failures. You could look at that data for ER vs. SR or even large module vs small module (just normalize for fewer large modules in ER vs. SR having all 9 small)

 

[bmwhitetx]

I wonder about putting more cells in the same space though regarding longevity and reliability.

Need good heat management - for dissipation and thermal expansion which could be more of a challenge with the higher density batteries.

Heat is a major factor in battery longevity so thermal management is critical.

Also charging rate has to be faster (higher current) to get to the same charge level in the same time as a less densely packed battery.

Has anyone noticed more failures of Lightning batteries in ER's vs SR's?

Some good points. I know when I had a module fail on my '22 two years ago it seemed like all the others were '22 Lariats also. Of course in '22 Ford really pushed the Lariat and Platinum - and limited the XLT and Pro (to the point reservation holders had to wait until 2023). So there are a whole lot more ER modules -at least for 2022.

 

[chl]

Some good points. I know when I had a module fail on my '22 two years ago it seemed like all the others were '22 Lariats also. Of course in '22 Ford really pushed the Lariat and Platinum - and limited the XLT and Pro (to the point reservation holders had to wait until 2023). So there are a whole lot more ER modules -at least for 2022.

Well some time down the line it should show up in the data if it is an issue.

Yes, I wanted a Pro and could not find a '22, the '23's Pro were also hard to come by until the end of the year when I finally started to see more availability - bought my Pro in Jan 2024 so I could get the tax credit up front.

A lot of the local dealerships were putting a hefty premium on the available '22 trims of up to $10k.
Even the '23's had premiums from some dealerships.
Then the demand collapsed, big surprise, and the asking price came back down to earth.

 

[Tom M]

Thanks, nice chart. I didn't know what the "buffer" capacity was.

I suppose the difference between 123kWh and 142.1kWh is the "buffer" extra battery capacity for health so the battery does not get too close to actual 100% or actual 0% controlled by the BMS (battery management system).

Sort of like gross and net income. The "usable" capacity is the net.

PS: AI had told me this but hadn't seen it in writing from Ford.

"The F-150 Lightning Extended Range has a total battery capacity of approximately 146-148 kWh, with a net usable capacity of 131 kWh"

My 2022 Lariat ER has a sticker on the battery just below the drivers door. It says 143.3 kWh. Sorry for the photo quality, it’s really hard to take pictures in that location.

 

[chl]

My 2022 Lariat ER has a sticker on the battery just below the drivers door. It says 143.3 kWh. Sorry for the photo quality, it’s really hard to take pictures in that location.

Thanks, now I'll have to look for my sticker!

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