Home Backup with Ford Charge Station Pro and Manual Transfer Switch?

[JC688]

I’m wondering if it’s possible to utilize the bi directional Ford charge station pro with a manual transfer switch for home backup? It’s 9.6kw from the charge port vs 7.2kw from the bed 240v outlet. I don’t need the fancy automatic switch over during power outage or data analysis or want to deal with the registration or Sunrun headache. I just like to utilize the full 9.6kw from the charge port and charge station pro. My electrician has installed a sub panel and moved the critical loads over. Appreciate any input.

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[chillaban]

No unfortunately Ford’s implementation isn’t bidirectional in that sense. The FCSP method seems to send DC out of the CCS pins and requires an on premise SunRun DC to AC inverter.

You can alternatively use the built in inverter via the L14-30 (generator plug) on the car, connected to a generator inlet to your house to back feed your panel using Pro Power Onboard, but you’ll have to solve the bonded neutral issue one way or another, plus it’s less automatic in that you have to go start the truck and probably turn off the heater and whatnot on the truck itself to save juice.

 

[JC688]

I’ve read the pro power onboard and generator plug thread. It’s a good solution but doesn’t draw the full 9.6kw. Does anyone know if others make a DC to AC inverter besides delta? I can do away with the dark battery and just have a manual transfer switch and inverter.

 

[Maquis]

Whatever you connected to the CCS connector would need to have the correct handshake protocol to energize the HVB contactors and get the DC power to the port.
The auto setup handles this using the HIS and FCSP. I doubt there’s anything else out there that can do this.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Stick with the onboard inverters, balance your needs between the frunks 2.4kw and the beds 7.4kw

 

[swngdncr]

I’ve read the pro power onboard and generator plug thread. It’s a good solution but doesn’t draw the full 9.6kw. Does anyone know if others make a DC to AC inverter besides delta? I can do away with the dark battery and just have a manual transfer switch and inverter.

It was supposed to be available Q2 this year, but apparently licensing issues are delaying the product release to 2024.. but my plan is to wait for this: https://www.emporiaenergy.com/how-the-emporia-v2x-charger-works. I don't know if it will hold, but the price point they've advertised is in the $1,500 range.

 

[bmwhitetx]

It was supposed to be available Q2 this year, but apparently licensing issues are delaying the product release to 2024.. but my plan is to wait for this: https://www.emporiaenergy.com/how-the-emporia-v2x-charger-works. I don't know if it will hold, but the price point they've advertised is in the $1,500 range.

You'll also need to wait for Ford to implement the ISO 15118 V2G interface protocol. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

 

[swngdncr]

You'll also need to wait for Ford to implement the ISO 15118 V2G interface protocol. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

Can you enlighten me/elaborate some? .. When i talked to Emporia they said the charger would work with the Lightning and didn't mention anything about this protocol

 

[bmwhitetx]

Can you enlighten me/elaborate some? .. When i talked to Emporia they said the charger would work with the Lightning and didn't mention anything about this protocol

I'm no expert so hopefully someone else will chime in. But the Emporia site says the charger uses the ISO 15118 V2G protocol. Part of this protocol is Plug & Charge which Ford does support in the Blue Oval network. But I believe the part about bi-directional charging (ISO 15118-20) is newer than when the Lightning came to be.
But if they say it will work then I guess it will and that would be awesome. Just make sure it works bi-directional and not just to charge to truck.

 

[JC688]

The Emporia specs say integrated DC/AC inverter. That’s makes this a really sleek and tidy setup compared to the HIS. The discharge output seems lower than the HIS?

 

[chillaban]

Can you enlighten me/elaborate some? .. When i talked to Emporia they said the charger would work with the Lightning and didn't mention anything about this protocol

I mean, until they demonstrate this, I remain skeptical. The lightning has never been said to comply with that protocol mentioned and the FCSP/Intelligent Backup software in the car and app specifically require pairing to a FCSP and won’t let you do anything until that happens.

This sounds like the made up specification bullet point about how the FCSP can charge Teslas but that is fully debunked, even after dremeling the adapter.

 

[Newton]

Coming from a marine background, I don't see why the model isn't to just have a grid-connected + solar battery hooked into your house panel that you recharge from the truck. I just saw the GM system and it takes 40 seconds to boot up, which is laughable. With a Mastervolt or Victron system you can shut off the dock power (and this can be big boats, 100A) and nobody onboard would notice, even the computers because the time is measured in milliseconds.

Charging the battery at 9kW would be about the same as pulling 9kW out of the truck battery and inverting it since there are losses either way.

They also use the batteries to boost voltage to even out power delivery onboard if there are drops in the shore power voltage. It is all automatic (even the generator start on the big boats) and the crew hardly even knows it is happening.

 

[Howard_Scott_Warshaw]

This market is still in it's infancy so I understand why manufacturers want to hold the standards and protocols close to the chest. A fire or loss of life event occurring because someone was able to scrap together some hardware would set us all back years. Having that barrier early on likely protects the industry as a whole.

Now that Ford [hopefully] knows the SunRun HIS is garbage, and that other companies (Emporia) are rolling out hardware solutions, I expect the standards and protocols will be opened to allow cross communication and interoperability.

 

[v2h8484]

Now that Ford [hopefully] knows the SunRun HIS is garbage, and that other companies (Emporia) are rolling out hardware solutions, I expect the standards and protocols will be opened to allow cross communication and interoperability.

It's doubtful that these companies will support open protocols accessible by third-parties like Emporia. Heck, Emporia itself does not support open protocols. As an example, residential solar inverters have been around for more than a decade and all major vendors (Enphase, SolarEdge, etc.) still do no support for open protocols. There is little business incentive to support open protocols or cross-vendor interoperability. OTOH, there are lots of business benefits to lock customer into proprietary systems. Everyone thinks they can be the Apple of X (solar, V2H/V2G, etc.). Regulatory compliance is likely the only way these companies will ever support open protocols. Tesla opening up NACS is a recent example of how regulations (e.g. IRA) can compel vendors to support open protocols.

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