ProPower 9.6kW - How many separate 120v / 20amp circuits can i get?

[ScottC]

I have a 24 Flash ER with ProPower 9.6KW option. Heading to Vegas for a video shoot in a couple weeks. The location we are filming does offer power drops, but they are pricey and i'd like to avoid if possible. I'm trying to determine how many separate 20amp 120v circuits i can squeeze out and use simultaneously.
1. As i see it - the Frunk and the Bed each have a separate 20amp/120v circuit.
2. The 30amp/240 could be converted with a pigtail to 2x 120v 15amp circuits?

Obviously, i'm not an electrician, so looking for some support here. The Pigtail i'm talking about would be something like this from Grainger...

https://www.grainger.com/product/PO...-4FZZ6?opr=PDPRRDSP&analytics=dsrrItems_4FZZ1

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[Vulnox]

I got one of the pigtails like you mentioned that I have used in a few power outages (but with our PowerBoost F-150s, not yet with the Lightning, same ProPower set up essentially though).

I use one of these which is like the one you linked but has two 5-20Rs per leg.

https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Distribution-Locking-Household-Protection/dp/B09P3GX6DM?th=1

As I understand it though you are correct, you can have two circuits (one per leg) from the 30 amp, but I believe the other two sets of 120 outlets in the bed are on the same inverter pair as the 30 amp. So whatever you plug into the 30 amp takes from your total for everything else in the bed.

The outlets in the frunk are on their own inverter.

The outlets in the cab could also be used, but they share with the frunk or bed, I am sure someone will mention which.

Really though it comes down to just not overloading the individual inverters. So knowing the draw from what you are plugging in is more important. If it's mainly lights and charging batteries you could probably run a lot just from the 30 amp and some extension cords, so long as it doesn't exceed 3600 watts on any individual leg (7200 total for the 30 amp).

Where people sometimes run into trouble is with electric motors as the surge draw can be a problem for the breakers in the F-150. Like if you have an A/C unit on a travel trailer that is 4000 watts when running normally but pulls 8000 watts at start through surge draw, it will typically trip the breaker. But a lot of off the shelf gas generators are able to handle that temporary surge draw without tripping.

It's best to test it before you rely on it if you have the equipment you plan to use.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Frunk / Cabin are on the Frunk inverter 2400 watts, 20 amps MAX at 120 v

Bed is on rear inverter, 7200 watts, 30 amps max per 120 v leg via the 240 output with conversion cable, though I'd limit combined 15/20 amp appliances (lights & equipment) so that the sum does not exceed 30 amps or the capacity of connecting extension cables.

 

[Highpi]

Since you have time, maybe do a test and hook everything up and see which configuration works best?

 

[Ragman]

I would ignore the 240 if you are only running 120 - the two sets of two 120s are the A and B side of the same 240 circuit - so think internal pigtail already.

You can run 4 circuits - the 4 plugs at rear - as a simulated 120/20 amp. Note you can pull 120/30 amp from those plugs and melt your cords if not careful.

Off the front you can run one 20, or maybe two 15s - if you know your draws aren't continuous. Don't close the trunk or you go from 2400 to 400 watts of power.

If you know what your heavy draws are you can handle three easily - and three lighter circuits.

 

[chl]

What everyone said and...

Watch out for reacitive loads (e.g., motors, compressors) they will draw an inrush current that could trip the breaker(s).

Also watch out for devices that produce electrical noise on the line, the GFCI seems to be very sensitive to that noise. Things like heaters that use switching to control the temp could be an issue - saw a post about electric blanket doing that, as well as some kind of drill (Dremel?).

I second the test it before-hand recommendation!

 

[Adventureboy]

Lots of good info above. 3 is the total number of 20-amp circuits. One from each bank in the bed and one from the frunk.
As others have mentioned, you can pull up to 30 amps from each of the banks in the bed. 30 amps per bank, but please self-limit to 20 amps per outlet or things may melt. If you need full-rated 20-amp circuits to run your equipment, you'd be limited to 3.

 

[Firn]

I have a 24 Flash ER with ProPower 9.6KW option. Heading to Vegas for a video shoot in a couple weeks. The location we are filming does offer power drops, but they are pricey and i'd like to avoid if possible. I'm trying to determine how many separate 20amp 120v circuits i can squeeze out and use simultaneously.
1. As i see it - the Frunk and the Bed each have a separate 20amp/120v circuit.
2. The 30amp/240 could be converted with a pigtail to 2x 120v 15amp circuits?

Obviously, i'm not an electrician, so looking for some support here. The Pigtail i'm talking about would be something like this from Grainger...

https://www.grainger.com/product/PO...-4FZZ6?opr=PDPRRDSP&analytics=dsrrItems_4FZZ1

9600w is 80amps using 120v circuits, so 4 20 amp circuits, at least technically.

The front inverter can run one 20a (120v * 20a = 2400w).

The rear can run 3, technically, but not in reality.
The rear 120v outlets are just the 240v split. You will see an A/B on the 240 plug cover, and an A on the cover of one set of 120v outlets, and a B on the other set. This A and B are the "legs" of the 240v. You can put one 20a load on each, but unfortunately not a second on either as that would be too much for that "leg". You could do one 20a on one leg and two 15a on the other however (240v * 30a = 2x 120v * 30A or 4x 120v * 15a)

 

[chl]

Just a note of caution:

The inverter pair that power the front circuits and the inverter pair that power the rear circuits are apparently (from forum posts) NOT phase locked so don't try to combine them.

 

[ScottC]

ok thank you all for the advice.

Likely i'm running either a pair of 1200watt lights or a 1200W and a 2400W.
At 120v the 1200 is 10amp and the 2400 would be 20. So run the 1200 out of the Frunk and the 2400 out of the Bed 120v outlet, correct? If the interior cabin is part of the Frunk circuit that leaves a little bit of juice for a laptop and a drive for workspace.

That all sound 5x5?

 

[hturnerfamily]

here's the lowdown:

- the FRUNK and CABIN outlets are all powered by a single 120v Inverter, with:

A)120v 20amp max power TOTAL from all the outlets, whether thru a SINGLE outlet, or a combination of all...



- the BED Outlets, though, are ALL powered by a separate single 240v Inverter, with:

B)240v combined 30amp max power to the 240v twist-lock outlet, and
C)120v 30AMP* max power to the 'regular' outlets, whether thru any single outlet, a combination of the 120v outlets, or a combination of using any of the 120v outlets AND the 240v outlet


essentially, any/all Frunk and Cabin outlets are maxed at 20amps
but
while the Bed outlets 'look' like typical 15/20amp household outlets, they are wired to the 240v 30amp inverter, and, therefore, *DO HAVE 30amp output, if you request that much, whether from a single outlet, or a combination of all of them, including the 240v outlet.

This has been tested and proven. Whether Ford understood this, or not, or whether they just assumed that most owners would generally view these typical household outlets as to be used for typical 15/20amp devices, is up for debate. *There is nothing to show that the wiring and the outlets aren't well designed for 30amps, if that's what they are used for. Likely, though, you might find it otherwise hard to actually USE up to 30amps thru any single outlet, anyway. The 'fuse' WILL TRIP at 30amps if thru any single outlet, or any combination of outlets, even if for a microsecond - it is VERY sensitive to this maximum, as it is ELECTRONICALLY controlled, unlike the typical household BREAKER.

*tested on an original '22 early-build PRO SR with 9.6kw ProPower option. This may or may not be how these modules/outlets/wiring/inverters are built in later versions/models.

 

[chl]

here's the lowdown:

- the FRUNK and CABIN outlets are all powered by a single 120v Inverter, with:

A)120v 20amp max power TOTAL from all the outlets, whether thru a SINGLE outlet, or a combination of all...



- the BED Outlets, though, are ALL powered by a separate single 240v Inverter, with:

B)240v combined 30amp max power to the 240v twist-lock outlet, and
C)120v 30AMP* max power to the 'regular' outlets, whether thru any single outlet, a combination of the 120v outlets, or a combination of using any of the 120v outlets AND the 240v outlet


essentially, any/all Frunk and Cabin outlets are maxed at 20amps
but
while the Bed outlets 'look' like typical 15/20amp household outlets, they are wired to the 240v 30amp inverter, and, therefore, *DO HAVE 30amp output, if you request that much, whether from a single outlet, or a combination of all of them, including the 240v outlet.

This has been tested and proven. Whether Ford understood this, or not, or whether they just assumed that most owners would generally view these typical household outlets as to be used for typical 15/20amp devices, is up for debate. *There is nothing to show that the wiring and the outlets aren't well designed for 30amps, if that's what they are used for. Likely, though, you might find it otherwise hard to actually USE up to 30amps thru any single outlet, anyway. The 'fuse' WILL TRIP at 30amps if thru any single outlet, or any combination of outlets, even if for a microsecond - it is VERY sensitive to this maximum, as it is ELECTRONICALLY controlled, unlike the typical household BREAKER.

*tested on an original '22 early-build PRO SR with 9.6kw ProPower option. This may or may not be how these modules/outlets/wiring/inverters are built in later versions/models.

"*There is nothing to show that the wiring and the outlets aren't well designed for 30amps"

With All Due Respect, and no offense, but that is just wrong.

Yes there is something! A couple of things!

Look at the outlet covers - I admit they are hard to see since the lettering is just raised black plastic, but if you get a flashlight on them just right like I did:

It clearly says 120V 20A and 2.4kW MAX. And of course 120V x 20A is 2.4kW.

Also, the manual says (page 183 NOTE in my 2023 manual):

"Note: Make sure that plugged in devices do
not exceed the ratings displayed on the
outlet covers."

Ignore the warnings at your own risk.

I have to ask, is there anything to show that the wiring and the outlets ARE well designed for 30amps? If so, tell me where.

Simply speaking, 10AWG wire (or larger) is needed to safely carry 30A of current and a 30A circuit should have a 30A receptacle, not a 20A receptacle.

It may be possible to wire a 20A receptacle's terminals with 10AWG wire.
But that does not mean the receptacle itself can handle that amount of current for very long.

20A receptacles are designed and rated for 20A or less. They may have a small margin of safety, but if one draws 30A from a 20A receptacle, overheating will be the result, maybe a fire too.

Outlets have standard configurations and are rated based on their capacity to handle particular maximum voltages and carry particular maximum currents.

So, 120V 20A outlets look like this (a F-150 bed outlet):

Note the left-hand side slot has a horizontal part.

If the cover's rating is ignored, the design is a sort of idiot-proof way of trying to ensure someone doesn't accidentally overload the circuit - it is impossible to plug in a 240V 30A plug for example.

There is little anyone can do to prevent overloading an outlet 100% of the time if people are going to ignore the ratings - hence house fires from overloaded circuits occur every year.

EDIT: if you were saying that one set of 120V 20A outlets can get say 20A and the other set of 120V 20A outlets can get another 10A, then OK maybe I misunderstood your point?

 

[Runaway Tractor]

By UL and NEMA standards, and device that needs 30 amps should have a proper 30 amp plug, which would not fit in the 20 amp receptacle on the truck. Assuming said device is not a custom made hack job.

The proper way to get 120v 30a would be a UL listed L14-30P to something like at TT-30R adapter or whatever applicable 30 amp rated receptacle you need. There are many many options readily available online. I think use cases for this are very very limited though so we've probably all spent way too much time talking about it to begin with.

Can confirm the overcurrent protection is very fast. It is not like a thermal circuit breaker in your panel that has some slow forgiveness for brief surges.

 

[hturnerfamily]

I can only attest to what true TESTS have shown/proven...whether you like it or not is up to you. Give it a try yourself.

 

[ScottC]

Thanks all. Our gaffer built a custom Nema to 220v Edison pigtail and will test our 2400 on that. The light itself has a an edison w a 220 / 120 switch that controls the amperage. Beyond that I think we can roll with 2x1200w out of the back 120v ports to make it easier. I'll circle back with a photo just for fun (unless my car is in flames). Appreciate it.

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